Discussion:
OT : Emagic Sucks????
(too old to reply)
Alvaro Villalobos
2002-01-28 20:48:05 UTC
Permalink
I´m sorry but I can say I´m a "little" bit dissapointed with Emagic!!

Emagic should get their stuff to work with AMD exactly like Steinberg what´s
the problem isn´t the people at Emagic good enough for this task or will we
see a lack of proffesionalism again (I´m thinking of full support for VST´s)

This is BTW the first letter where I get pissed of but I don´t understand
how a big company can just forget about another extremely big company AMD!

And like I said before I don´t understand why Emagic doesn´t collaborate
like Steinberg and develop stuff to make it work perfectly instead of just
dissing a computer company like AMD that´s a bit stupid in my opinion!

I have also asked Markus about three times now when he´s been online just to
know wich PC (Pentium are probably the most genrous company woth Emagic)
with all the specs that Emagic have for that why isn´t Emagic then
collaborating on this one???

I still like PCs and as we have seen the development really has been good
when it comes to make them music software work under.

So for the 4 th time what PC do you recommend then Emagic????

I want the specs for it soundcard ram size etc!!

And if you are supported by Pentium please support them a bit more and tell
my what Pentium with what hardware will work perfectly so I can just buy the
stuff and play along my music!!

The best,

Alvaro Villalobos.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos är det enklaste sättet att dela ut och skriva ut foton:
http://photos.msn.se/Support/WorldWide.aspx
Markus Fritze
2002-01-28 21:53:30 UTC
Permalink
Emagic should get their stuff to work with AMD exactly like Steinberg what´s
the problem isn´t the people at Emagic good enough for this task or will we
see a lack of proffesionalism again (I´m thinking of full support for VST´s)
AFAIK Logic works fine with AMD CPUs, what is _your_ problem? It seems that
some people always need something to blame something instead for focusing on
the music.
I have also asked Markus about three times now when he´s been online just to
know wich PC (Pentium are probably the most genrous company woth Emagic)
with all the specs that Emagic have for that why isn´t Emagic then
collaborating on this one???
I got _one_ email from you (at 5:35pm this evening) and I won't give an
official recommendation for a Windows system (this is not my job!). Check
Info-Web or ask our tech support for recommendations.
And like I said before I don´t understand why Emagic doesn´t collaborate
like Steinberg and develop stuff to make it work perfectly instead of just
dissing a computer company like AMD that´s a bit stupid in my opinion!
_Emagic_ NEVER wrote this!!! This was a personal comment from myself and I
marked it CLEARLY: "Well, (private comment) Athlon sucks...". If it is not
possible for me to do a private comment (like everybody else in the list is
doing all the time), I think this list is not for me.

MMM
--
Markus Fritze
Emagic Soft- und Hardware GmbH <http://www.emagic.de>
Chief Developer New Technology Integration, Mac OS
knightfly22
2002-01-28 22:19:46 UTC
Permalink
O.K. Markus and Emagic will never recomend a system to run Logic!
Surely thats obvious, they can't because of the position they are in.
BUT I WILL. If you want a reliable problem free audio/video computer
use an INTEL system! END OF CHAT, no more posts on AMD sucks please.
Can we have some constructive recording comments, instead of this
constant winging from people with mickey mouse computers and sound
blaster cards. Get a life, get a system, get recording!
M.S.
Post by Markus Fritze
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
Emagic should get their stuff to work with AMD exactly like
Steinberg what´s
Post by Markus Fritze
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
the problem isn´t the people at Emagic good enough for this task or will we
see a lack of proffesionalism again (I´m thinking of full support for VST´s)
AFAIK Logic works fine with AMD CPUs, what is _your_ problem? It seems that
some people always need something to blame something instead for focusing on
the music.
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
I have also asked Markus about three times now when he´s been online just to
know wich PC (Pentium are probably the most genrous company woth Emagic)
with all the specs that Emagic have for that why isn´t Emagic then
collaborating on this one???
I got _one_ email from you (at 5:35pm this evening) and I won't give an
official recommendation for a Windows system (this is not my job!). Check
Info-Web or ask our tech support for recommendations.
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
And like I said before I don´t understand why Emagic doesn´t collaborate
like Steinberg and develop stuff to make it work perfectly
instead of just
Post by Markus Fritze
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
dissing a computer company like AMD that´s a bit stupid in my opinion!
_Emagic_ NEVER wrote this!!! This was a personal comment from
myself and I
Post by Markus Fritze
marked it CLEARLY: "Well, (private comment) Athlon sucks...". If it is not
possible for me to do a private comment (like everybody else in the list is
doing all the time), I think this list is not for me.
MMM
--
Markus Fritze
Emagic Soft- und Hardware GmbH <http://www.emagic.de>
Chief Developer New Technology Integration, Mac OS
Sascha Franck
2002-01-29 04:00:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by knightfly22
If you want a reliable problem free audio/video computer
use an INTEL system! END OF CHAT, no more posts on AMD sucks please.
Can we have some constructive recording comments, instead of this
constant winging from people with mickey mouse computers and sound
blaster cards. Get a life, get a system, get recording!
What a sensible post...
Actually, I really don't care what systems people use. I've worked on
Ataris, PCs and Macs, all have their ups and downs.

To me, the situation right now seems like this:
1) Macs are the easiest to setup and maintain. I've never seen a Mac user
having such big problems as PC users sometimes have. This doesn't make a Mac
to perform any better in general, especially in these days where PCs win in
terms of sheer performance, but it's not a bad thing either as you will
simply find yourself dealing with less computer problems. So, IMO in the end
your answer should have been " If you want a reliable problem free
audio/video computer use an Mac!" - at least if it came down to just that.

2) Athlon setups *may* cause more troubles than Intel systems. Right now,
with all those new mainboards and chipsets the situation seems to become a
bit better, but even myself, being a bit of experienced when it comes to
building my own (and friends) systems, have been running into serious
compatibility issues between certain VIA chipset mainboards and quite some
soundcards. I even had to deal with exchanging mainboards on a complete
machine twice, certainly the hugest problem you can run into. Back then the
mainboard I used (an Abit KT7) seemed to be the best available from the
specs, but it pretty much wasn't so. Once you experienced such a thing
you're pretty damn close to saying "Athlons suck". Fortunately back then I
had quite some time on my hands, so I just kept trying - sucessfully, btw.
I think there's still a good chance to run into more problems with an Athlon
system than with an Intel system, but these days that's only true if you buy
stock PCs - they usually aren't configured well at all. But then, if you
plan to use a computer as a DAW, you shouldn't buy stock PCs anyways (if you
want a stock machine, get a Mac).

3) Athlons so far seem to be the winner when it comes down to pure
performance. Seems as if the P4 is coming up (don't know about the new Macs,
would be interesting to see them in direct comparison in a music setup
instead of some rather lame benchmark), but so far to me it still seems that
overall the Athlons win more or less hands down. And they are cheaper (yes,
I admit, that's a valid point for me too). Again, P4s are coming up as Intel
recently lowered their prices pretty much more than AMD. My next machine
will most likely be an athlon again though.

4) Ataris still seem to result in the fewest crashes while delivering
extraordinary performance at the lowest clock speeds ever. Of course I'm
talking about MIDI only here. Still using Cubase 2.0 every now and then on
the rehearsal room machine, never experienced a single crash (you even
forget where the save keys are after working with Ataris for a while).

Maybe Markus Fritze was referring to point 2) when he said "Athlons suck" -
but that might be up to the fact that he's a Mac guy and that his PC friends
may have gotten the wrong system configurations (they should eventually
consider this list to ask for a reliable PC configuration...), so it's
somewhat forgiveable :-)
In general a comment such as that isn't exactly what I'd call 100%
appropriate though, there's just too many happy Athlon users - for good
reasons IMO.

My personal opinion:
- I can't afford a proper Mac. I'd like to get one in addition one day to
see if it really is that much a better OS/configuration in some long time
test, but maybe this will never happen - spending twice the money than on a
top notch PC for some Mac (that's the rough figures over here in germany)
while only delivering *average* performance isn't what I'm after right now.
This is also why my main system never would be a Mac. In the past it might
have been different because Macs outperformed any PC easily, but back then I
was even cheaper than now.
- My next system will be an Athlon again. I am still pretty much happy with
my current system, but as I'm gonna go the all native (or DSP card, who
knows) route, CPU demands are getting higher almost every day. Fortunately I
have a month or so to wait what's coming, maybe P4s will get drastically
cheaper, we'll see.

Good night,
Sascha
vico gutiérrez
2002-01-28 22:24:45 UTC
Permalink
Hi Markus,
Post by Markus Fritze
If it is not
possible for me to do a private comment (like everybody else in the list is
doing all the time), I think this list is not for me.
MMM
--
Markus Fritze
Emagic Soft- und Hardware GmbH <http://www.emagic.de>
Chief Developer New Technology Integration, Mac OS
well, i don't know what sux and what doesn't, but i find your posts not
only informative, but must of the time necessary.

i remember one time when i asked you something about TDM support for
logic under MacOS X.x.x, your answer was something like "... ask
digidesign, etc.", it was not rude, but i perceived it like kind of
ignoring the fact that must of the time digidesign is really evasive in
their answers to users, and that oftentimes press releases are cowritten
by marketing people who tend to be very optimistic and not precise, when
it comes to technical details...

so i think this list is for you, many of us just read and do not post
very often. this list helped me a lot when i decided to purchase logic
audio, back in the nineties i stopped using digital performer because of
the (my perception) bad timing engine, back then i switched from a mac
to an mpc-60 (which i still use for grooves, again, i prefer it for
rythm tracks, over logic). one friend recommended me to read posts of
the old list (the one the guy with the weird name use to administer,
before the yahoo one) and i remember how it helped me to read posts from
the emagic guys in making up my mind; the first piece of music with
commercial intentions i did in logic audio/audiowerk8 is still making me
money.

take these comments with a grain of salt, and remember: opinions are
just like the asshole (the anus); everybody has one.

i hope none finds this offensive,

regards.

vico
sonido mambo
mexico
Colin Shapiro
2002-01-29 00:20:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Markus Fritze
_Emagic_ NEVER wrote this!!! This was a personal comment from myself and I
marked it CLEARLY: "Well, (private comment) Athlon sucks...". If it is not
possible for me to do a private comment (like everybody else in the list is
doing all the time), I think this list is not for me.
Markus, don't let these idiots upset you. There are many of us who
*REALLY* value your presence here on LUG.

Of course you can comment, just like everyone else. Because you are
from Emagic, people get the wrong idea sometimes.

Thanks for all your help, input and information.

Best regards - Colin
David Tobin
2002-01-29 01:05:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Markus Fritze
_Emagic_ NEVER wrote this!!! This was a personal comment from myself and I
marked it CLEARLY: "Well, (private comment) Athlon sucks...". If it is not
possible for me to do a private comment (like everybody else in the list is
doing all the time), I think this list is not for me.
MMM
Markus

Some of us really appreciate your private comments, and are not stupid
enough to spend our time just being rude or insulting you...

We love logic and are impressed with all the snippets we have seen of the
new upgrade.

Ignore the insults and please don't leave the group - we need you.

Regards

David Tobin

Wow and Flutter ltd

Music for Film/TV production, General Music Technology
Arranging, Multimedia production, Music Tech teaching,
Artist recordings etc.
litepipe
2002-01-29 02:20:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Markus Fritze
_Emagic_ NEVER wrote this!!! This was a personal comment from myself and I
marked it CLEARLY: "Well, (private comment) Athlon sucks...". If it is not
possible for me to do a private comment (like everybody else in the list is
doing all the time), I think this list is not for me.
MMM
C'mon people, can't someone have an opinion? So what if he's a developer
at Emagic. It was a personal statement and he likes what he likes. I would
really dislike this group if it became totally clinical and Emagic staff or
anyone else would be totally restricted to an opinion. Can we not be human?

As for getting a good p.c. config.......Why not ask someone on the group
instead of dumping a bunch of demands on the Emagic staff that are nice
enough to contribute here? There are many audio pro's on this list that use
Logic for MANY hours a day and have very stable p.c.'s.

How about we start talking about great user tips for Logic again....How
about something usefull? Someone has to be holding a gold nugget?

--Roger
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
2002-01-29 02:12:16 UTC
Permalink
Sometimes list administration of this list makes me feel like Jerry
Springer. :-) I was going to post another mail on this, but after
reviewing the entire thread, I saw that most posts came from just very
few people... so the thread wasn't as bad as it first looked.

It is clear that Markus is entitled to have his own opinion and
obviously he's also entitled to give his opinion in public. He's clearly
stated that it was his personal opinion and not that of Emagic. So,
there is no reason to panic. (I for one don't agree with Markus' opinion
on this matter.)

There is also no reason to treat Markus with such "disrespect" as some
of the mails in this thread did. Instead of a healthy discussion, we got
some name-calling (see this subject line e.g.). I would find it a great
loss if Markus were to leave this list, and I sincerely hope he doesn't.

=> I call upon all list members to treat eachother in a way that you'd
like to be treated yourself.

I think this is the minimum we can do to make this list enjoyable for
all of us.

Take care of yourself... and your loved ones,
Jerry.... ehm, I mean... Joeri :)
--
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri-f51aDrrnByXQT0dZR+***@public.gmane.org

Belway Productions - http://www.belway.com
List-admin Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM
Lars Vik
2002-01-29 12:59:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Markus Fritze
_Emagic_ NEVER wrote this!!! This was a personal comment
from myself and I marked it CLEARLY: "Well, (private comment)
Athlon sucks...". If it is not possible for me to do a private
comment (like everybody else in the list is doing all the time),
I think this list is not for me.
Well said, Markus!
JL_Picard6288
2002-01-28 22:23:20 UTC
Permalink
1) Logic and Emagic's other products all work with AMD processors.
There are *MANY* people on this list who have their setup working with
AMD processors. Even Michael Haydn at Emagic has an AMD based system,
and obviously it's working fine for him.

2) Asking REPETITIVELY for information doesn't necessarily guarantee
that you'll get it. Emagic is not OBLIGATED to respond to certain
threads on this list, or even this list in general. Consider it a
privilege that certain people from Emagic respond at all. From watching
threads on this list, it seems as if three major people from Emagic
contribute to this list: Sascha Kujawa (beta test coordinator), Michael
Haydn (developer), and Markus Fritze (developer). These guys mainly
respond to threads that interest them. If your thread doesn't interest
them, you're shit out of luck. If asking once for Emagic's collective
PC configurations (which is a lot of data to collect, by the way...)
doesn't yield any results, STOP ASKING. You're not going to get
anywhere. The best options are to ask multiple people on this list and
find out what works, and what doesn't. Don't ask for *complete*
configuration information in an easy to use, 1-2-3 step instruction
list. This is a user supported list, and nobody's being paid for
helping you.

3) There are shitloads of users on this list who love Emagic, myself
included. Whining and moaning about how Emagic sucks, when they don't,
just shows how juvenile you are. Besides, most users ignore threads
like this... so typing it won't really do anything but make you feel
better (temporarily). So Emagic has a few faults, what company doesn't?
Learn to give constructive criticism, because that's the only way you'll
make a difference.

4) Lack of professionalism? Become a software developer, where
deadlines exist, and companies are forced to make decisions about what
features to include or not include all the time. In the grand scheme of
things, multiple outs for VST instruments are NOT THE END OF THE WORLD.
People used Logic for years without multiple outs for VST instruments.
Delaying it for a few months will NOT MATTER IN THE ***SLIGHTEST***. If
you're writing music while thinking about this feature, or if you plan
entire songs around it, that's just dumb. If you care so much about
this feature, move to Cubase. Hint hint, you'll regret it.

5) "I want the specs for it soundcard ram size etc!!" See above, #2.

-Matt
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 21:48:05 +0100
From: "Alvaro Villalobos" <logicuser2001 at hotmail dot com>
Subject: OT : Emagic Sucks????

I´m sorry but I can say I´m a "little" bit dissapointed with Emagic!!

Emagic should get their stuff to work with AMD exactly like Steinberg
what´s
the problem isn´t the people at Emagic good enough for this task or will
we
see a lack of proffesionalism again (I´m thinking of full support for
VST´s)

This is BTW the first letter where I get pissed of but I don´t
understand
how a big company can just forget about another extremely big company
AMD!

And like I said before I don´t understand why Emagic doesn´t collaborate

like Steinberg and develop stuff to make it work perfectly instead of
just
dissing a computer company like AMD that´s a bit stupid in my opinion!

I have also asked Markus about three times now when he´s been online
just to
know wich PC (Pentium are probably the most genrous company woth Emagic)

with all the specs that Emagic have for that why isn´t Emagic then
collaborating on this one???

I still like PCs and as we have seen the development really has been
good
when it comes to make them music software work under.

So for the 4 th time what PC do you recommend then Emagic????

I want the specs for it soundcard ram size etc!!

And if you are supported by Pentium please support them a bit more and
tell
my what Pentium with what hardware will work perfectly so I can just buy
the
stuff and play along my music!!

The best,

Alvaro Villalobos.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Alvaro Villalobos
2002-01-28 22:37:40 UTC
Permalink
OK it wasn´t my intention to go so hard I`m SORRY for that!

But I still think it would be good to know what systems Emagic are running
because of stability I just thought that it could be as a help for everyone
here who would like to have a recommended PC systen from Emagic themselves
but as I have seen that´s not a responsibility off course!

Anyway I hope one day I know what system they are running just to get
something as near as 100 % stable system as I can since it´s so important to
work under a system that´s stable!

Anyway SORRY Markus it wasn´t really my intetion to go so hard on you!!

The best,

Alvaro Villalobos.
Subject: [LUG] RE: OT : Emagic Sucks????
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:23:20 -0800
1) Logic and Emagic's other products all work with AMD processors.
There are *MANY* people on this list who have their setup working with
AMD processors. Even Michael Haydn at Emagic has an AMD based system,
and obviously it's working fine for him.
2) Asking REPETITIVELY for information doesn't necessarily guarantee
that you'll get it. Emagic is not OBLIGATED to respond to certain
threads on this list, or even this list in general. Consider it a
privilege that certain people from Emagic respond at all. From watching
threads on this list, it seems as if three major people from Emagic
contribute to this list: Sascha Kujawa (beta test coordinator), Michael
Haydn (developer), and Markus Fritze (developer). These guys mainly
respond to threads that interest them. If your thread doesn't interest
them, you're shit out of luck. If asking once for Emagic's collective
PC configurations (which is a lot of data to collect, by the way...)
doesn't yield any results, STOP ASKING. You're not going to get
anywhere. The best options are to ask multiple people on this list and
find out what works, and what doesn't. Don't ask for *complete*
configuration information in an easy to use, 1-2-3 step instruction
list. This is a user supported list, and nobody's being paid for
helping you.
3) There are shitloads of users on this list who love Emagic, myself
included. Whining and moaning about how Emagic sucks, when they don't,
just shows how juvenile you are. Besides, most users ignore threads
like this... so typing it won't really do anything but make you feel
better (temporarily). So Emagic has a few faults, what company doesn't?
Learn to give constructive criticism, because that's the only way you'll
make a difference.
4) Lack of professionalism? Become a software developer, where
deadlines exist, and companies are forced to make decisions about what
features to include or not include all the time. In the grand scheme of
things, multiple outs for VST instruments are NOT THE END OF THE WORLD.
People used Logic for years without multiple outs for VST instruments.
Delaying it for a few months will NOT MATTER IN THE ***SLIGHTEST***. If
you're writing music while thinking about this feature, or if you plan
entire songs around it, that's just dumb. If you care so much about
this feature, move to Cubase. Hint hint, you'll regret it.
5) "I want the specs for it soundcard ram size etc!!" See above, #2.
-Matt
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 21:48:05 +0100
From: "Alvaro Villalobos" <logicuser2001 at hotmail dot com>
Subject: OT : Emagic Sucks????
I´m sorry but I can say I´m a "little" bit dissapointed with Emagic!!
Emagic should get their stuff to work with AMD exactly like Steinberg
what´s
the problem isn´t the people at Emagic good enough for this task or will
we
see a lack of proffesionalism again (I´m thinking of full support for
VST´s)
This is BTW the first letter where I get pissed of but I don´t
understand
how a big company can just forget about another extremely big company
AMD!
And like I said before I don´t understand why Emagic doesn´t collaborate
like Steinberg and develop stuff to make it work perfectly instead of
just
dissing a computer company like AMD that´s a bit stupid in my opinion!
I have also asked Markus about three times now when he´s been online
just to
know wich PC (Pentium are probably the most genrous company woth Emagic)
with all the specs that Emagic have for that why isn´t Emagic then
collaborating on this one???
I still like PCs and as we have seen the development really has been
good
when it comes to make them music software work under.
So for the 4 th time what PC do you recommend then Emagic????
I want the specs for it soundcard ram size etc!!
And if you are supported by Pentium please support them a bit more and
tell
my what Pentium with what hardware will work perfectly so I can just buy
the
stuff and play along my music!!
The best,
Alvaro Villalobos.
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Please include [LAM]/[LAW]/[GEN]/[OT] in your subject line <<<<<
FAQ: http://www.logicuser.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos är det enklaste sättet att dela ut och skriva ut foton:
http://photos.msn.se/Support/WorldWide.aspx
jason_72969
2002-01-28 23:09:42 UTC
Permalink
Recommended PC from Emagic would be sooooooooooo great!!!!!!
OK it wasn´t my intention to go so hard I`m SORRY for that!
But I still think it would be good to know what systems Emagic are running
because of stability I just thought that it could be as a help for everyone
here who would like to have a recommended PC systen from Emagic themselves
but as I have seen that´s not a responsibility off course!
Anyway I hope one day I know what system they are running just to get
something as near as 100 % stable system as I can since it´s so
important to
work under a system that´s stable!
Anyway SORRY Markus it wasn´t really my intetion to go so hard on
you!!
The best,
Alvaro Villalobos.
Subject: [LUG] RE: OT : Emagic Sucks????
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:23:20 -0800
1) Logic and Emagic's other products all work with AMD processors.
There are *MANY* people on this list who have their setup working with
AMD processors. Even Michael Haydn at Emagic has an AMD based
system,
and obviously it's working fine for him.
2) Asking REPETITIVELY for information doesn't necessarily
guarantee
that you'll get it. Emagic is not OBLIGATED to respond to certain
threads on this list, or even this list in general. Consider it a
privilege that certain people from Emagic respond at all. From watching
threads on this list, it seems as if three major people from Emagic
contribute to this list: Sascha Kujawa (beta test coordinator), Michael
Haydn (developer), and Markus Fritze (developer). These guys
mainly
respond to threads that interest them. If your thread doesn't
interest
them, you're shit out of luck. If asking once for Emagic's
collective
PC configurations (which is a lot of data to collect, by the
way...)
doesn't yield any results, STOP ASKING. You're not going to get
anywhere. The best options are to ask multiple people on this
list and
find out what works, and what doesn't. Don't ask for *complete*
configuration information in an easy to use, 1-2-3 step instruction
list. This is a user supported list, and nobody's being paid for
helping you.
3) There are shitloads of users on this list who love Emagic,
myself
included. Whining and moaning about how Emagic sucks, when they don't,
just shows how juvenile you are. Besides, most users ignore
threads
like this... so typing it won't really do anything but make you feel
better (temporarily). So Emagic has a few faults, what company doesn't?
Learn to give constructive criticism, because that's the only way you'll
make a difference.
4) Lack of professionalism? Become a software developer, where
deadlines exist, and companies are forced to make decisions about what
features to include or not include all the time. In the grand
scheme of
things, multiple outs for VST instruments are NOT THE END OF THE WORLD.
People used Logic for years without multiple outs for VST
instruments.
Delaying it for a few months will NOT MATTER IN THE
***SLIGHTEST***. If
you're writing music while thinking about this feature, or if you plan
entire songs around it, that's just dumb. If you care so much
about
this feature, move to Cubase. Hint hint, you'll regret it.
5) "I want the specs for it soundcard ram size etc!!" See above, #2.
-Matt
_____________________________________________________________________
___
_____________________________________________________________________
___
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 21:48:05 +0100
From: "Alvaro Villalobos" <logicuser2001 at hotmail dot com>
Subject: OT : Emagic Sucks????
I´m sorry but I can say I´m a "little" bit dissapointed with
Emagic!!
Emagic should get their stuff to work with AMD exactly like
Steinberg
what´s
the problem isn´t the people at Emagic good enough for this task
or will
we
see a lack of proffesionalism again (I´m thinking of full support
for
VST´s)
This is BTW the first letter where I get pissed of but I don´t
understand
how a big company can just forget about another extremely big
company
AMD!
And like I said before I don´t understand why Emagic doesn´t
collaborate
like Steinberg and develop stuff to make it work perfectly instead of
just
dissing a computer company like AMD that´s a bit stupid in my
opinion!
I have also asked Markus about three times now when he´s been
online
just to
know wich PC (Pentium are probably the most genrous company woth Emagic)
with all the specs that Emagic have for that why isn´t Emagic then
collaborating on this one???
I still like PCs and as we have seen the development really has been
good
when it comes to make them music software work under.
So for the 4 th time what PC do you recommend then Emagic????
I want the specs for it soundcard ram size etc!!
And if you are supported by Pentium please support them a bit more and
tell
my what Pentium with what hardware will work perfectly so I can just buy
the
stuff and play along my music!!
The best,
Alvaro Villalobos.
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Please include [LAM]/[LAW]/[GEN]/[OT] in your subject line <<<<<
FAQ: http://www.logicuser.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
_________________________________________________________________
http://photos.msn.se/Support/WorldWide.aspx
pierre petit
2002-01-29 00:02:27 UTC
Permalink
Hello,
I need an advice. I will buy a dual head video card tommorow. I think
i'll go for matrox 450 but i saw an ati radeon 8500 that looked
interesting.. Anyone using that card?
Also i will buy a second monitor. Is anyone using a dual display setup
with on 19inch and on 17inch screen? Is it better to have two screens the
same size?

Thanks all any advice appreciated.

Pierre
...Allias
2002-01-29 03:19:31 UTC
Permalink
Matrox doesn't have the 3d support (BTW: ati can only do 3d on one of the
two displays) like ati but Matrox has better dual display support and much
more stable display drivers. That's why I would choose Matrox.

-----Original Message-----
From: pierre petit [mailto:petitpierre-XzQKRVe1yT0V+D8aMU/***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 7:02 PM
To: logic-users-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [LUG] Ot/lawp/Dual display question.

Hello,
I need an advice. I will buy a dual head video card tommorow. I think
i'll go for matrox 450 but i saw an ati radeon 8500 that looked
interesting.. Anyone using that card?
Also i will buy a second monitor. Is anyone using a dual display setup
with on 19inch and on 17inch screen? Is it better to have two screens the
same size?

Thanks all any advice appreciated.

Pierre
Please include [LAM]/[LAW]/[GEN]/[OT] in your subject line <<<<<
FAQ: http://www.logicuser.net

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
technodork_2000
2002-01-29 07:04:54 UTC
Permalink
Just curious, I have tried two different 2nd video cards in my Dual
500 G4 Mac. One was a no-name brand, the second was an ATI
Rage, PCI slot card.

Both appeared to work fine until running Logic Audio sessions,
operations slowed to a halt, could hardly scroll through my
samples in the EXS24? Is there a known issue with trying to run
2 cards like this, do you have to have a dual head card.

I was simply running them so that I could have mirror images, or
the same screen in 2 locations in my studio, for diffent
programming stations.......

OS 9.2.2, Logic 4.8.1, MOTU 2408mkII, Unitor 8mkII, Mac Dual
500, 1gb of ram,
...Allias
2002-01-29 21:53:53 UTC
Permalink
Sounds like a driver issue. Are you running the latest drivers?

-----Original Message-----
From: technodork_2000 [mailto:technodork_2000-/***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 2:05 AM
To: logic-users-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [LUG] LAMP: OT: 2nd Video Cards on a G4 Dual 533? Problems?

Just curious, I have tried two different 2nd video cards in my Dual
500 G4 Mac. One was a no-name brand, the second was an ATI
Rage, PCI slot card.

Both appeared to work fine until running Logic Audio sessions,
operations slowed to a halt, could hardly scroll through my
samples in the EXS24? Is there a known issue with trying to run
2 cards like this, do you have to have a dual head card.

I was simply running them so that I could have mirror images, or
the same screen in 2 locations in my studio, for diffent
programming stations.......

OS 9.2.2, Logic 4.8.1, MOTU 2408mkII, Unitor 8mkII, Mac Dual
500, 1gb of ram,
Please include [LAM]/[LAW]/[GEN]/[OT] in your subject line <<<<<
FAQ: http://www.logicuser.net

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Cyril Blanc
2002-01-30 10:28:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by ...Allias
Sounds like a driver issue. Are you running the latest drivers?
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 2:05 AM
Subject: [LUG] LAMP: OT: 2nd Video Cards on a G4 Dual 533? Problems?
Just curious, I have tried two different 2nd video cards in my Dual
500 G4 Mac. One was a no-name brand, the second was an ATI
Rage, PCI slot card.
You need the drivers for your "no-name" video card
I have been f.... by Appian, they deliver a 2D driver, but no 3D and no
DVD driver

Cyril
Gareth Henderson
2002-01-30 19:11:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cyril Blanc
Hi
I'm using a 533DP with a second ATI Radeon and it works great, but I did
need updated drivers from their web site
Gareth
Post by Cyril Blanc
Post by ...Allias
Sounds like a driver issue. Are you running the latest drivers?
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 2:05 AM
Subject: [LUG] LAMP: OT: 2nd Video Cards on a G4 Dual 533? Problems?
Just curious, I have tried two different 2nd video cards in my Dual
500 G4 Mac. One was a no-name brand, the second was an ATI
Rage, PCI slot card.
You need the drivers for your "no-name" video card
I have been f.... by Appian, they deliver a 2D driver, but no 3D and no
DVD driver
Cyril
Post by ...Allias
Please include [LAM]/[LAW]/[GEN]/[OT] in your subject line <<<<<
FAQ: http://www.logicuser.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
dayoogunyemi
2002-01-29 17:34:35 UTC
Permalink
*ANY* currently shipping Mac!! ;-) Plug in and play music.
Post by jason_72969
Recommended PC from Emagic would be sooooooooooo
great!!!!!!
Post by jason_72969
OK it wasn´t my intention to go so hard I`m SORRY for that!
But I still think it would be good to know what systems
Emagic are
Post by jason_72969
running
because of stability
jason_72969
2002-01-29 21:06:14 UTC
Permalink
I also want Emagic to recommended third party AD/DA hardware!!! :-)
That I'm sure could save all of us big bucks!
Post by dayoogunyemi
*ANY* currently shipping Mac!! ;-) Plug in and play music.
Post by jason_72969
Recommended PC from Emagic would be sooooooooooo
great!!!!!!
Post by jason_72969
OK it wasn´t my intention to go so hard I`m SORRY for that!
But I still think it would be good to know what systems
Emagic are
Post by jason_72969
running
because of stability
Alvaro Villalobos
2002-01-28 23:17:51 UTC
Permalink
Exactly that´s what I would like to know!

I have now sended an email to their support and their info in Germany so
hopefully we will now soon!!

The best,

Alvaro Villalobos.
Subject: Re: [LUG] RE: OT : Emagic Sucks????
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 23:09:42 -0000
Recommended PC from Emagic would be sooooooooooo great!!!!!!
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
OK it wasn´t my intention to go so hard I`m SORRY for that!
But I still think it would be good to know what systems Emagic are
running
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
because of stability I just thought that it could be as a help for
everyone
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
here who would like to have a recommended PC systen from Emagic
themselves
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
but as I have seen that´s not a responsibility off course!
Anyway I hope one day I know what system they are running just to
get
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
something as near as 100 % stable system as I can since it´s so
important to
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
work under a system that´s stable!
Anyway SORRY Markus it wasn´t really my intetion to go so hard on
you!!
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
The best,
Alvaro Villalobos.
Subject: [LUG] RE: OT : Emagic Sucks????
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:23:20 -0800
1) Logic and Emagic's other products all work with AMD processors.
There are *MANY* people on this list who have their setup working
with
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
AMD processors. Even Michael Haydn at Emagic has an AMD based
system,
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
and obviously it's working fine for him.
2) Asking REPETITIVELY for information doesn't necessarily
guarantee
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
that you'll get it. Emagic is not OBLIGATED to respond to certain
threads on this list, or even this list in general. Consider it a
privilege that certain people from Emagic respond at all. From
watching
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
threads on this list, it seems as if three major people from Emagic
contribute to this list: Sascha Kujawa (beta test coordinator),
Michael
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
Haydn (developer), and Markus Fritze (developer). These guys
mainly
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
respond to threads that interest them. If your thread doesn't
interest
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
them, you're shit out of luck. If asking once for Emagic's
collective
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
PC configurations (which is a lot of data to collect, by the
way...)
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
doesn't yield any results, STOP ASKING. You're not going to get
anywhere. The best options are to ask multiple people on this
list and
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
find out what works, and what doesn't. Don't ask for *complete*
configuration information in an easy to use, 1-2-3 step instruction
list. This is a user supported list, and nobody's being paid for
helping you.
3) There are shitloads of users on this list who love Emagic,
myself
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
included. Whining and moaning about how Emagic sucks, when they
don't,
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
just shows how juvenile you are. Besides, most users ignore
threads
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
like this... so typing it won't really do anything but make you
feel
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
better (temporarily). So Emagic has a few faults, what company
doesn't?
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
Learn to give constructive criticism, because that's the only way
you'll
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
make a difference.
4) Lack of professionalism? Become a software developer, where
deadlines exist, and companies are forced to make decisions about
what
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
features to include or not include all the time. In the grand
scheme of
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
things, multiple outs for VST instruments are NOT THE END OF THE
WORLD.
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
People used Logic for years without multiple outs for VST
instruments.
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
Delaying it for a few months will NOT MATTER IN THE
***SLIGHTEST***. If
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
you're writing music while thinking about this feature, or if you
plan
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
entire songs around it, that's just dumb. If you care so much
about
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
this feature, move to Cubase. Hint hint, you'll regret it.
5) "I want the specs for it soundcard ram size etc!!" See above,
#2.
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
-Matt
_____________________________________________________________________
___
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
_____________________________________________________________________
___
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 21:48:05 +0100
From: "Alvaro Villalobos" <logicuser2001 at hotmail dot com>
Subject: OT : Emagic Sucks????
I´m sorry but I can say I´m a "little" bit dissapointed with
Emagic!!
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
Emagic should get their stuff to work with AMD exactly like
Steinberg
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
what´s
the problem isn´t the people at Emagic good enough for this task
or will
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
we
see a lack of proffesionalism again (I´m thinking of full support
for
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
VST´s)
This is BTW the first letter where I get pissed of but I don´t
understand
how a big company can just forget about another extremely big
company
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
AMD!
And like I said before I don´t understand why Emagic doesn´t
collaborate
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
like Steinberg and develop stuff to make it work perfectly instead
of
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
just
dissing a computer company like AMD that´s a bit stupid in my
opinion!
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
I have also asked Markus about three times now when he´s been
online
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
just to
know wich PC (Pentium are probably the most genrous company woth
Emagic)
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
with all the specs that Emagic have for that why isn´t Emagic then
collaborating on this one???
I still like PCs and as we have seen the development really has
been
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
good
when it comes to make them music software work under.
So for the 4 th time what PC do you recommend then Emagic????
I want the specs for it soundcard ram size etc!!
And if you are supported by Pentium please support them a bit more
and
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
tell
my what Pentium with what hardware will work perfectly so I can
just buy
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
the
stuff and play along my music!!
The best,
Alvaro Villalobos.
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Please include [LAM]/[LAW]/[GEN]/[OT] in your subject line
<<<<<
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
FAQ: http://www.logicuser.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
_________________________________________________________________
http://photos.msn.se/Support/WorldWide.aspx
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_________________________________________________________________
Hämta MSN Explorer kostnadsfritt på http://explorer.msn.se/intl.asp
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
2002-01-28 23:31:43 UTC
Permalink
Alvaro, look at what you just quoted!!! Was this really necessary? And
most of your mails have this kind of quoting. I've sent you a private
mail on this, I guess you didn't read it yet. PLEASE TRIM YOUR MAILS!
And I really hope everyone starts doing this.
I've left the entire quote attached on purpose.
Exactly that´s what I would like to know!
I have now sended an email to their support and their info in Germany so
hopefully we will now soon!!
The best,
Alvaro Villalobos.
Subject: Re: [LUG] RE: OT : Emagic Sucks????
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 23:09:42 -0000
Recommended PC from Emagic would be sooooooooooo great!!!!!!
OK it wasn´t my intention to go so hard I`m SORRY for that!
But I still think it would be good to know what systems Emagic are
running
because of stability I just thought that it could be as a help for
everyone
here who would like to have a recommended PC systen from Emagic
themselves
but as I have seen that´s not a responsibility off course!
Anyway I hope one day I know what system they are running just to
get
something as near as 100 % stable system as I can since it´s so
important to
work under a system that´s stable!
Anyway SORRY Markus it wasn´t really my intetion to go so hard on
you!!
The best,
Alvaro Villalobos.
Subject: [LUG] RE: OT : Emagic Sucks????
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:23:20 -0800
1) Logic and Emagic's other products all work with AMD processors.
There are *MANY* people on this list who have their setup working
with
AMD processors. Even Michael Haydn at Emagic has an AMD based
system,
and obviously it's working fine for him.
2) Asking REPETITIVELY for information doesn't necessarily
guarantee
that you'll get it. Emagic is not OBLIGATED to respond to certain
threads on this list, or even this list in general. Consider it a
privilege that certain people from Emagic respond at all. From
watching
threads on this list, it seems as if three major people from Emagic
contribute to this list: Sascha Kujawa (beta test coordinator),
Michael
Haydn (developer), and Markus Fritze (developer). These guys
mainly
respond to threads that interest them. If your thread doesn't
interest
them, you're shit out of luck. If asking once for Emagic's
collective
PC configurations (which is a lot of data to collect, by the
way...)
doesn't yield any results, STOP ASKING. You're not going to get
anywhere. The best options are to ask multiple people on this
list and
find out what works, and what doesn't. Don't ask for *complete*
configuration information in an easy to use, 1-2-3 step instruction
list. This is a user supported list, and nobody's being paid for
helping you.
3) There are shitloads of users on this list who love Emagic,
myself
included. Whining and moaning about how Emagic sucks, when they
don't,
just shows how juvenile you are. Besides, most users ignore
threads
like this... so typing it won't really do anything but make you
feel
better (temporarily). So Emagic has a few faults, what company
doesn't?
Learn to give constructive criticism, because that's the only way
you'll
make a difference.
4) Lack of professionalism? Become a software developer, where
deadlines exist, and companies are forced to make decisions about
what
features to include or not include all the time. In the grand
scheme of
things, multiple outs for VST instruments are NOT THE END OF THE
WORLD.
People used Logic for years without multiple outs for VST
instruments.
Delaying it for a few months will NOT MATTER IN THE
***SLIGHTEST***. If
you're writing music while thinking about this feature, or if you
plan
entire songs around it, that's just dumb. If you care so much
about
this feature, move to Cubase. Hint hint, you'll regret it.
5) "I want the specs for it soundcard ram size etc!!" See above,
#2.
-Matt
_____________________________________________________________________
___
_____________________________________________________________________
___
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 21:48:05 +0100
From: "Alvaro Villalobos" <logicuser2001 at hotmail dot com>
Subject: OT : Emagic Sucks????
I´m sorry but I can say I´m a "little" bit dissapointed with
Emagic!!
Emagic should get their stuff to work with AMD exactly like
Steinberg
what´s
the problem isn´t the people at Emagic good enough for this task
or will
we
see a lack of proffesionalism again (I´m thinking of full support
for
VST´s)
This is BTW the first letter where I get pissed of but I don´t
understand
how a big company can just forget about another extremely big
company
AMD!
And like I said before I don´t understand why Emagic doesn´t
collaborate
like Steinberg and develop stuff to make it work perfectly instead
of
just
dissing a computer company like AMD that´s a bit stupid in my
opinion!
I have also asked Markus about three times now when he´s been
online
just to
know wich PC (Pentium are probably the most genrous company woth
Emagic)
with all the specs that Emagic have for that why isn´t Emagic then
collaborating on this one???
I still like PCs and as we have seen the development really has
been
good
when it comes to make them music software work under.
So for the 4 th time what PC do you recommend then Emagic????
I want the specs for it soundcard ram size etc!!
And if you are supported by Pentium please support them a bit more
and
tell
my what Pentium with what hardware will work perfectly so I can
just buy
the
stuff and play along my music!!
The best,
Alvaro Villalobos.
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Please include [LAM]/[LAW]/[GEN]/[OT] in your subject line
<<<<<
FAQ: http://www.logicuser.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
_________________________________________________________________
http://photos.msn.se/Support/WorldWide.aspx
Please include [LAM]/[LAW]/[GEN]/[OT] in your subject line <<<<<
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
_________________________________________________________________
Hämta MSN Explorer kostnadsfritt på http://explorer.msn.se/intl.asp
Please include [LAM]/[LAW]/[GEN]/[OT] in your subject line <<<<<
FAQ: http://www.logicuser.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri-f51aDrrnByXQT0dZR+***@public.gmane.org

Belway Productions - http://www.belway.com
List-admin Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM
woodslanding
2002-01-28 23:43:44 UTC
Permalink
All I ask is please give them 5 or 10 minutes to respond.....

;')

e
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
I have now sended an email to their support and their info in Germany so
hopefully we will now soon!!
The best,
Alvaro Villalobos.
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Kool Musick
2002-01-29 00:10:50 UTC
Permalink
... look at what you just quoted!!! Was this really necessary?
PLEASE TRIM YOUR MAILS!
Good call.
And I really hope everyone starts doing this.
Quite.

Kool Musick
Keep Musick Kool

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Tony Bambony
2002-01-28 21:28:41 UTC
Permalink
Alvaro ... pls calm down.

Maybe Markus is very busy with:

Logic V5 Launch
General Emagic business
Other things

Most of us on the list I suspect are thankful for any snippet that is relayed direct
and correct from Emagic. Your insistent mails demand almost instant replies. I don't
believe that is something you can expect. If you have real issues call your dealer.
If it is simply the PC spec you are after it may appear here at some stage. I can see
that submitting a setup would be akin to recommending a setup and be the cause of
future potential grief when users may find this setup not to work for them for
reasons unrelated to emagic.

I suggest being polite and patient may be more prudent if you want good advice.

And swearing definitely doesn't fucking work ... (irony)

Tony Perretta
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
I´m sorry but I can say I´m a "little" bit dissapointed with Emagic!!
Emagic should get their stuff to work with AMD exactly like Steinberg what´s
the problem isn´t the people at Emagic good enough for this task or will we
see a lack of proffesionalism again (I´m thinking of full support for VST´s)
This is BTW the first letter where I get pissed of but I don´t understand
how a big company can just forget about another extremely big company AMD!
And like I said before I don´t understand why Emagic doesn´t collaborate
like Steinberg and develop stuff to make it work perfectly instead of just
dissing a computer company like AMD that´s a bit stupid in my opinion!
I have also asked Markus about three times now when he´s been online just to
know wich PC (Pentium are probably the most genrous company woth Emagic)
with all the specs that Emagic have for that why isn´t Emagic then
collaborating on this one???
I still like PCs and as we have seen the development really has been good
when it comes to make them music software work under.
So for the 4 th time what PC do you recommend then Emagic????
I want the specs for it soundcard ram size etc!!
And if you are supported by Pentium please support them a bit more and tell
my what Pentium with what hardware will work perfectly so I can just buy the
stuff and play along my music!!
The best,
Alvaro Villalobos.
apb8pie
2002-01-28 23:04:30 UTC
Permalink
Humm

I phoned the emagic help line about 10 days ago and spoke to Ed (or
should that be Mr Ed)? anyway I have over the past 10 years or so
phoned in whenever I needed advice on what computer system to buy.
This time Ed recommended an Athlon processor with the Asus
motherboard A7v. I was also told to be careful when buying a case
because of the heat generated by the Athlon. After much research the
Aopen A600H case seems to fits the criteria. I think this should
clarify the situation with regards to emagic recommendations and
helpfulness.

Long live the King

apb8pie
Daniel-Dax
2002-01-28 23:49:33 UTC
Permalink
<A G4 500Mhz chip is not comparable to say Athlon 500Mhz chip. Otherwise
the
<G4/500 would measure many times faster. No, Two different technologies
went
<into making each chip. G4 500Mhz chip would be more comparable to say
<Athlon 1Ghz chip. And even then that rough neck comparison. For instance
a
<single P4 1.7Ghz is comparable to a single G4/867Mhz.

sorry i really cant understand that "mac has the double speed of a pc with
the same mhz rate" thingy.
on the apple site www.apple.com/powermac were they promote their new dual
1ghz g4 they write its 300% faster then a 2ghz pentium. sorry thats complete
bullshit. but i can imagine what they did they took a photoshop plug in
which was very well optimized to run on a g4 using full advantage of the
altivec and compared it with a version on pc without sse1, mmx, sse2 or
whatever. i own a mac!!! and i work on macs since 9 years now. if i could
affort it i would have a big protools mix++ (yeah, at least 3 farms!) but i
dont have 50.000$ and will never spent so much money on computer hardware
which is worth nothing 3 years later. so i decided to try pc s and since xp
i am very happy with it. BUT i install big systems and i allways have the
latest macs on my desk the fastest (g4 867 mhz) is just nothing compared to
a athlon 2000+ with a fast motherboard like kt266a or the nvidia chipset. a
pc with these parts is at least 2 times faster then the fastest mac. of
cause i would prefer a 876mhz mac with a protolls system (this is no OS
war!!! i love both system OS9.xx and XP!!!) but i cant stand this apple lie
anymore that G4 is more then 2 times faster then PC with the same mhz. if
you want to see how good benchmarks look like go to www.tomshardware.com
they have allways more then 8 benchmarks when they test systems, but this
apple photoshop benchmark crap is a lie. my guess is that a G4 is 20-40%
faster then a PIII and 10-20% faster then a Athlon and its allmost the same
on Athlon XP.
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
2002-01-29 00:36:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel-Dax
<A G4 500Mhz chip is not comparable to say Athlon 500Mhz chip. Otherwise
the
<G4/500 would measure many times faster. No, Two different technologies
went
<into making each chip. G4 500Mhz chip would be more comparable to say
<Athlon 1Ghz chip. And even then that rough neck comparison. For instance
a
<single P4 1.7Ghz is comparable to a single G4/867Mhz.
sorry i really cant understand that "mac has the double speed of a pc with
the same mhz rate" thingy.
on the apple site www.apple.com/powermac were they promote their new dual
1ghz g4 they write its 300% faster then a 2ghz pentium. sorry thats complete
bullshit. but i can imagine what they did they took a photoshop plug in
which was very well optimized to run on a g4 using full advantage of the
altivec and compared it with a version on pc without sse1, mmx, sse2 or
whatever. i own a mac!!! and i work on macs since 9 years now. if i could
affort it i would have a big protools mix++ (yeah, at least 3 farms!) but i
dont have 50.000$ and will never spent so much money on computer hardware
which is worth nothing 3 years later. so i decided to try pc s and since xp
i am very happy with it. BUT i install big systems and i allways have the
latest macs on my desk the fastest (g4 867 mhz) is just nothing compared to
a athlon 2000+ with a fast motherboard like kt266a or the nvidia chipset. a
pc with these parts is at least 2 times faster then the fastest mac. of
cause i would prefer a 876mhz mac with a protolls system (this is no OS
war!!! i love both system OS9.xx and XP!!!) but i cant stand this apple lie
anymore that G4 is more then 2 times faster then PC with the same mhz. if
you want to see how good benchmarks look like go to www.tomshardware.com
they have allways more then 8 benchmarks when they test systems, but this
apple photoshop benchmark crap is a lie. my guess is that a G4 is 20-40%
faster then a PIII and 10-20% faster then a Athlon and its allmost the same
on Athlon XP.
Apple's marketing policy is not a Logic-issue. And this kind of
messages, even if they're intended in a good way, could easily lead to
platform wars... so please keep these discussions off the list. Thanks.

I'll moderate the thread if necessary.

Bye,
Joeri
--
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri-f51aDrrnByXQT0dZR+***@public.gmane.org

Belway Productions - http://www.belway.com
List-admin Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM
t***@public.gmane.org
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Permalink
From: "Alvaro Villalobos" <logicuser2001-***@public.gmane.org>
Dear Alvaro (and some others as well),

would it please(!) be possible to NOT quote whole posts on and on?

Reading through some of the last posts, I saw that whole
"reply-to-the-reply-of-reply" giving endless lines of unnecessary
quoting.

Myself and probably a lot of people here would really appreciate
the "USE OF THE _DELETE_ KEY" :)

It just takes so little time to cut out the lines one is going
to reply, put them on top and the reply underneath - but will help
so much in getting along with the loads of mails here.

Thanks,
Thomas
pierre petit
2002-01-29 00:04:27 UTC
Permalink
I run lawp on win2k. Why is it that i can open only one plug in at a time?If
i open a second plug in it just takes the place of the first.I'd like too
see them globally. Is that possible somehow?
Thanks!

Pierre
litepipe
2002-01-29 02:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by pierre petit
I run lawp on win2k. Why is it that i can open only one plug in at a time?If
i open a second plug in it just takes the place of the first.I'd like too
see them globally. Is that possible somehow?
Thanks!
Hi Pierre,
I take it you're new to this list? This question was just
answered a few days ago. All you have to do is unclick the chain icon on the
plugins. Then you can open them up independently.
Hope that helps and welcome to the group!!

--Roger
Murray McDowall
2002-01-29 00:59:44 UTC
Permalink
Alvaro my good man,

I have just scrolled through about 10 of your messages, many of them
tending toward abusive in tone, several with excessive quoting. Take a
chill pill my friend. Use this resource with respect and some restraint.
Don't harass Markus -- he is a Mac guy for a start.

JL picard's advice (quoted below) to you was very sensible.
Post by JL_Picard6288
2) Asking REPETITIVELY for information doesn't necessarily guarantee
that you'll get it. Emagic is not OBLIGATED to respond to certain
threads on this list, or even this list in general. Consider it a
privilege that certain people from Emagic respond at all. From watching
threads on this list, it seems as if three major people from Emagic
contribute to this list: Sascha Kujawa (beta test coordinator), Michael
Haydn (developer), and Markus Fritze (developer). These guys mainly
respond to threads that interest them. If your thread doesn't interest
them, you're shit out of luck. If asking once for Emagic's collective
PC configurations (which is a lot of data to collect, by the way...)
doesn't yield any results, STOP ASKING. You're not going to get
anywhere. The best options are to ask multiple people on this list and
find out what works, and what doesn't. Don't ask for *complete*
configuration information in an easy to use, 1-2-3 step instruction
list. This is a user supported list, and nobody's being paid for
helping you.
Happy music making,
M
Jonathan Christensen
2002-01-29 01:05:45 UTC
Permalink
I'm staggered that Markus would make such an unprofessional and blatantly
untrue statement - I don't see the rational behind this kind of bias. It
makes me wonder what's going on at Emagic and whether they've got their shit
together on the PC side.
Sorry to be down on Emagic, but this is an astonishingly dumb remark.
Guys . . .it's called an *opinion* . . . .something we all express here.
He even went so far as to say "(private comment)". That to me means, he
is expressing *his* opinion, just like any other member of this Forum
would, and that *his* opinion is not necessarily that of Emagic as an
entity. I've been on many a beta list where the actual people writing the
code expressed a negative *opinion* on the very platform they were
writing for (in this case the Mac platform). That does not mean it's a
company wide assesment. If you want these guys to be a part of this
Forum, then we should allow them to express their *opinions* and pass
along their observations and findings . . . just like any one of us
would. They are people and users too . . .and they are entitled to it.

that is *my* opinion.

best,
Jon

-- config--
Apple G4 Dual 800, 1.5 gig of ram, Mac OS 9.2.2, RME Hammerfall DSP/
Digiface, MOTU 2408, MOTU MTP AV (USB), Apogee WC Master, Spirit Digital
328 (digital mixer/controller), ATI Radeon AGP, ATI Rage128 (second monitor).
Alexis Aiosa
2002-01-29 01:16:07 UTC
Permalink
That...I didn't know...LOL.

I will try to find a better analogy...

Peace,
Alexis
I agree your conclusions, but the comparison with the cars is wrong.
If you add 2 100 BHP engines you actually do get 200 BHP (or close,
allow for some losses) and you do go faster (not 2x, of course).
This was done in 30's by Alfa Romeo which built a race car called
~Bimotore~ and later by Citroen (I believe in the 60`s).
The rest is correct.
Regards
f-erenc szabo
2002-01-29 01:18:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
And like I said before I don´t understand why Emagic doesn´t
collaborate like Steinberg and develop stuff to make it work
perfectly instead of just dissing a computer company like AMD
that´s a bit stupid in my opinion!
No such statement was ever made by Emagic. Instead, you
read a *PRIVATE* comment from one person there.
Don't you think that everybody has the right to make private
comments without representing a family/company/country?
Shall I hold your family/company/country responsible for your
own private comments? Of course, somebody is going to
argue that we don't know who you are, but we know who many
of the Emagicians are. Should "fame" change their freedom?
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
So for the 4 th time what PC do you recommend then Emagic????
I want the specs for it soundcard ram size etc!!
This is not the forum to ask this (although you might unofficially
get some very good advice). Why don't you simply ask the list
for somebody to tell you their EXACT configuration which works
perfectly fine, and then copy that? There are far too many combinations
of PC hardware to say that one is the best. With a Mac it's rather
simple: The fastest is the best.

f-erenc szabo, smarty pants
Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T
"NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!"
Alexis Aiosa
2002-01-29 01:28:12 UTC
Permalink
Same here in the sense that I am drawn to Steinberg products, like a moth to
a flame. Only to find that if I fly to close, I get burned. So, after a
while, I decided to fly around lightbulbs instead.

Steinberg throws a lot of money around in development, but the reality
is...sometimes it is exactly that, just throwing money around...LOL. I am
not really keen on Logic right now either. But rest assured I still haven't
found anything better...weep :-( ...Music lost with out a home.

Peace,
Alexis
I used CleanIt (horrible and unuseable), WaveLab Lite(buggy), and a couple
of their free plug-ins (both crashed Logic). I really avoid their stuff,
nowadays.
Skip
Jonathan Christensen
2002-01-29 01:33:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by f-erenc szabo
Post by Alvaro Villalobos
So for the 4 th time what PC do you recommend then Emagic????
I want the specs for it soundcard ram size etc!!
This is not the forum to ask this (although you might unofficially
get some very good advice). Why don't you simply ask the list
for somebody to tell you their EXACT configuration which works
perfectly fine, and then copy that? There are far too many combinations
of PC hardware to say that one is the best.
Indeed. And don't Emagic already have a section on their website of which
soundcards are compatible and tested? I would get your information from
there, and then go to the soundcard manufacturer to see what additional
components they suggest. RME has some info on their site regarding this.

best,
Jon
JL_Picard6288
2002-01-29 01:39:58 UTC
Permalink
I ordered my V5 upgrade from Emagic USA (over the phone) already.
I also stopped into Guitar Center in San Francisco the other day and
someone there quoted "Feb. 7th" as the day I should stop in and pickup
Logic Control. I don't know if that date is correct, but being as
Emagic said that "end of January" was the target release date, give it a
week or 2 for international shipping, and possibly, it will be there
near that date :)

Also, I think Guitar Center (a dealer) does sell upgrades to V5,
although I'm not positive.

-Matt

________________________________________________________________________

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 20:03:58 -0500
From: "f-erenc szabo" <zerobeat-0ove8hJuTzuB+***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: LAMP:L5 US ship date?
Maybe I missed it but is there an official date we can order and
receive 5.0? Emagic site says end of January. I searched this list
and didn't find anything definitive. Today being Jan 28 does anyone
know what part of the end of January it will be available?
"Shipping" and "Arrival" are two different things, sometimes separated
by weeks. You can order now - first pay, first get.

The longer you wait to order, the longer you will wait to get it.

In North America, call 530-477-1051 to order your Logic5 UPGRADE. New
copies will be at dealers in February (at least here in Canada so I'm
told). Dealers don't sell upgrades, just
new copies.

f-erenc szabo, smarty pants
Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T
"NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!"

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Neil Audio
2002-01-29 01:40:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by f-erenc szabo
There are far too many combinations
of PC hardware to say that one is the best. With a Mac it's rather
simple: The fastest is the best.
Or is it the most expensive one? :)
oops - same thing!

I wonder if Apple could get away with selling their G4's for the prices they
do if they were packaged in a normal plastic ATX PC case... prob not! That
Chassis MAKES it look expensive...

Im not starting a platform war - I use both all the time - just making a
private comment ;)

~Neil

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
f-erenc szabo
2002-01-29 02:02:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Audio
I wonder if Apple could get away with selling their G4's for the
prices they do if they were packaged in a normal plastic ATX
PC case... prob not! That Chassis MAKES it look expensive...
I wonder if Apple could get away with selling their G4s for the
prices they do if they were packaged with Windows instead of
the MacOS? Definitely not.

f-erenc szabo, smarty pants
Z+E+R+O+B+E+A+T
"NOW POWERED BY THE MIRACLE OF THE TRANSISTOR!"
Jonathan Christensen
2002-01-29 03:05:03 UTC
Permalink
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 1:34 AM
Subject: [LUG] LAW How do i do a group mute?
I'm trying to have all the tracks mute except for one for a really
short amount of time(like in hip hop or dub reggae). is there an easy
way to do this? maybe in the event list?
There are no mute groups in logic.......nice, isn't it?? ;-)
Put all these tracks into a folder and mute this one.
Record the muting with the automation, if you like.
Matthias
Mute all tracks except 1??? Why that sounds like a job for the solo
button. It can even be automated :-)

best,
Jon
s***@public.gmane.org
2002-01-29 03:29:33 UTC
Permalink
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Christensen" <jon-uOsLuBWUXBjprZlt/***@public.gmane.org>
To: <logic-users-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 4:05 AM
Subject: Re: [LUG] LAW How do i do a group mute?
Post by Jonathan Christensen
There are no mute groups in logic.......nice, isn't it?? ;-)
Put all these tracks into a folder and mute this one.
Record the muting with the automation, if you like.
Matthias
Mute all tracks except 1??? Why that sounds like a job for the solo
button. It can even be automated :-)
Oh yeah, of course, that's better in this case.....;-)
I forgot the easiest solution.

But nevertheless I wonder why there are no mute groups...
I mean the thing _does_ look like a kind of automated mixing desk,
doesn't it? ...;-)
and sometimes there's more than one track left....

Matthias
Marc
2002-01-29 03:35:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Audio
I wonder if Apple could get away with selling their G4's for the prices they
do if they were packaged in a normal plastic ATX PC case... prob not! That
Chassis MAKES it look expensive...
Im not starting a platform war - I use both all the time - just making a
private comment ;)
A private comment to 6,000+ people? Hmmm, interesting way of going
about that...

And yes you are saying precisely the sort of crap that starts
platform wars on this list.

Marc
TaQ
2002-01-29 03:56:27 UTC
Permalink
A G4 processor is a RISC chip. If you think about the advantages of RISC
chips, then you might understand that it is possible that a G4/500 is faster
than a P or A something 1GHz in particular applications.

The point is that I said "particular" not "every".

The second point is that you can't trust the benchmarks in every situation.
If you use an Wordprocesser on a IDE HDD based computer, it "feels" quite
fast.
but if you use it (the IDE HDD based computer) for audio applications, maybe
not. I found it much faster on a UW160SCSI based computer.

So my point is simple, you can't compare two or more processors only with
the clock speed, even if the numbers are twice bigger then the other.

I am not a computer based engineer or something close that, I think other
peaple know better about this. It is just my oppinion
I meen, if you have that system, in wich you are satisfied, be happy with
it, that's it.

gruesse aus Japan!

TaQ
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 00:49:33 +0100
Subject: OT : Athlon sucks?????
sorry i really cant understand that "mac has the double speed of a pc with
the same mhz rate" thingy.
Jonathan Christensen
2002-01-29 04:15:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@public.gmane.org
Oh yeah, of course, that's better in this case.....;-)
I forgot the easiest solution.
But nevertheless I wonder why there are no mute groups...
I mean the thing _does_ look like a kind of automated mixing desk,
doesn't it? ...;-)
and sometimes there's more than one track left....
Matthias
Hi Matthias,

Perhaps I am misunderstanding. We have mutes and solos available on Group
Tracks (busses), which can also be automated . . doesn't that serve the
same purpose?

best,
Jon
Colin Shapiro
2002-01-29 14:52:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan Christensen
Perhaps I am misunderstanding. We have mutes and solos available on Group
Tracks (busses), which can also be automated . . doesn't that serve the
same purpose?
That may work for audio only, but I think the original poster meant
midi tracks also (in Arrange).

We had this discussion many times before. In the old Atari Notator,
you had group mutes. Why then none in Logic?
It has something to do with the current architecture of Logic - this
may of course change from v5.x onwards.

A workaround suggested at the time was to colour your arrange objects
the same, then use the key command for selecting objects of equal
colour, and mute selected objects. This has limitations in that an
object cannot belong to more than 1 mute group.

Regards - Colin
s***@public.gmane.org
2002-01-29 15:38:23 UTC
Permalink
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Christensen" <jon-uOsLuBWUXBjprZlt/***@public.gmane.org>
To: <logic-users-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 5:15 AM
Subject: Re: [LUG] LAW How do i do a group mute?
Post by Jonathan Christensen
Hi Matthias,
Perhaps I am misunderstanding. We have mutes and solos available on Group
Tracks (busses), which can also be automated . . doesn't that serve the
same purpose?
Not as easy as mute groups would do. Often it's annoying to route tracks toa bus
only because you want to mute them for a short time or toggle between mutedand
playing.
But your solution sure is another workaround.... if it's audio.....

But as long as you have to think of "workarounds", the original function ismissing...
isn't it?
In fact I can live with it, as it is.....

I would much more appreciate that the sample editor
had better options to simulate destructive cuts i'm going to do.
(I'm talking about (destructively) eliminating wrong words or coughs
when having recorded spoken material..... the sample editor can play the selection,
it can play just to the beginning of the selection and stop there, it can play from the end of the
selection, but it _cannot_ play from before the selection, skip the selection and
continue right after the selection.
This would be easy accessable, if Cycle mode was enabled und I click in the
wavefarm before the selection.... no additional button needed.....
But that's another story...;-)

Matthias
Post by Jonathan Christensen
best,
Jon
Alvaro Villalobos
2002-01-29 16:45:44 UTC
Permalink
I have already said I´m sorry for this!

What more do you want me to do??

Anyway SORRY once again and hopefully we all get systems that work flawless
with Logic and that´s one of the big reasons I joined this list!

So my questions where only intentions to get a good tip from someone at
Emagic but don´t worry I´ll get my own system and hopefully with help from
all of you guys here I´ll get it working fine...

Anyway SORRY for the fifth time and keep making music!!

The best,

Alvaro Villalobos.
Subject: [LUG] Re: RE: OT : Emagic Sucks????
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 11:59:44 +1100
Alvaro my good man,
I have just scrolled through about 10 of your messages, many of them
tending toward abusive in tone, several with excessive quoting. Take a
chill pill my friend. Use this resource with respect and some restraint.
Don't harass Markus -- he is a Mac guy for a start.
JL picard's advice (quoted below) to you was very sensible.
Post by JL_Picard6288
2) Asking REPETITIVELY for information doesn't necessarily guarantee
that you'll get it. Emagic is not OBLIGATED to respond to certain
threads on this list, or even this list in general. Consider it a
privilege that certain people from Emagic respond at all. From watching
threads on this list, it seems as if three major people from Emagic
contribute to this list: Sascha Kujawa (beta test coordinator), Michael
Haydn (developer), and Markus Fritze (developer). These guys mainly
respond to threads that interest them. If your thread doesn't interest
them, you're shit out of luck. If asking once for Emagic's collective
PC configurations (which is a lot of data to collect, by the way...)
doesn't yield any results, STOP ASKING. You're not going to get
anywhere. The best options are to ask multiple people on this list and
find out what works, and what doesn't. Don't ask for *complete*
configuration information in an easy to use, 1-2-3 step instruction
list. This is a user supported list, and nobody's being paid for
helping you.
Happy music making,
M
Post by JL_Picard6288
Please include [LAM]/[LAW]/[GEN]/[OT] in your subject line <<<<<
FAQ: http://www.logicuser.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
_________________________________________________________________
Kom med i världens största e-posttjänst; MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com/sv
Hendrik Jan Veenstra
2002-01-29 20:13:54 UTC
Permalink
I have already said I´m sorry for this!
What more do you want me to do??
[2 pages deleted, of which most was completely unnecessary]

How about: start off with a relevant quote from the message you're
responding to, and then attach your reply. Cut away everything
that's not relevant from the original message.

This particular message you're reading now is, I think, a good
example of this practice and clearly demonstrates why a thing like
'netiquette' exists, and why people insist on sticking to those
"unwritten laws".

cheers,
HJ, who's getting fed up with all the Emagic sucks, Athlon sucks,
x7/q2 chipsets and underpowered threads, especially since they seem
to be conducted mainly by people who have not the faintest idea of
what decent email/internet behaviour is, and who, despite repeated
requests from several more decent group members, obviously refuse to
learn anything that's not 'fast & convenient' for them, no matter how
annoying, confusing and time-consuming their behaviour is for others.
--
Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h-mQbLehsLH5rz+***@public.gmane.org>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html
Alexis Aiosa
2002-01-29 17:08:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Bambony
Alvaro ... pls calm down.
<Snip>
Post by Tony Bambony
I suggest being polite and patient may be more prudent if you want good advice.
Tony Perretta
--------------------------------------
Post by Tony Bambony
All I ask is please give them 5 or 10 minutes to respond.....
;')
e
Also, take into account that there is a 9 hour time difference...between
America and Germany. So, if you are in the US and just waking up, there day
is almost over.

You have be a tad more patient when dealing internationally.

Peace,
Alexis
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