Discussion:
OT:Ok Who Is Using Windows XP and Is Stabler than WIN2K? Which OS to buy?
(too old to reply)
Satch
2001-11-30 11:45:39 UTC
Permalink
OT:Ok Who Is Using Windows XP and Is Stabler than WIN2K? Which OS to buy?
Tod Moses
2001-11-30 18:15:51 UTC
Permalink
I have tried WP and backed out to wait on drivers.
Two questions: 1. Which version of Logic are you
useing? If you aren't using the most recent version
it is technicaly not compatable with XP or 2000.
According to EMagic that means that you can use it if
Logic was installed in a previous verion of Windows.
But they won't promise anything amd if you have to
reinstall you can not do it in XP or 2K. 2. Are
there going to be drivers that are XP compatible for
your hardware? In the week that I used XP I was
blown away by its stability and icreased speed of my
PC. I am upgrading to the newest version of Logic
Gold and I can't wait to get XP back on my machine.
There is lots of talk agout XP being a prettied up and
inferior version of 2000, but if you do your research
you will find that it is a lot different/better in
ways that I don't have time to get into. Lastly, if
you have an older PC you might not be able to handle
XP. So check with your PC and motherboard
manufacturerers before you make a decision. A year or
two from now 2k will be a dinasore XP won't.
Post by Satch
OT:Ok Who Is Using Windows XP and Is Stabler than
WIN2K? Which OS to buy?
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Keith Christoffers
2001-11-30 00:48:01 UTC
Permalink
1. XP is the same kernel as w2k, so any computer which runs w2k will run XP
in a similar capacity.

2. W2K is one of the business OSs of choice. XP is a consumer OS. You think
all the business' are going to switch to a consumer OS out of the blue
(which is essentially the same anyway) and MS will simultaneously stop
supporting w2k to the degree they support XP? heh heh heh... maybe not, who
knows ;)

3. "but if you do your research you will find that it is a lot
different/better in ways that I don't have time to get into"........ please
do. All independent tests I have seen show it to be equivalent in all
aspects.

cheers,
keith$
Post by Tod Moses
I have tried WP and backed out to wait on drivers.
Two questions: 1. Which version of Logic are you
useing? If you aren't using the most recent version
it is technicaly not compatable with XP or 2000.
According to EMagic that means that you can use it if
Logic was installed in a previous verion of Windows.
But they won't promise anything amd if you have to
reinstall you can not do it in XP or 2K. 2. Are
there going to be drivers that are XP compatible for
your hardware? In the week that I used XP I was
blown away by its stability and icreased speed of my
PC. I am upgrading to the newest version of Logic
Gold and I can't wait to get XP back on my machine.
There is lots of talk agout XP being a prettied up and
inferior version of 2000, but if you do your research
you will find that it is a lot different/better in
ways that I don't have time to get into. Lastly, if
you have an older PC you might not be able to handle
XP. So check with your PC and motherboard
manufacturerers before you make a decision. A year or
two from now 2k will be a dinasore XP won't.
Post by Satch
OT:Ok Who Is Using Windows XP and Is Stabler than
WIN2K? Which OS to buy?
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Post by Satch
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Phil Angus
2001-12-01 00:10:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Satch
OT:Ok Who Is Using Windows XP and Is Stabler than WIN2K? Which OS to buy?
Well Satch, you need to boogie on down and get XP as it is future proof and will offer more support for software including Logic as time goes on. I use it now and it's great. Check your hardware is supported.

Phil

PS XP Home Edition - single CPU support
XP Professional - dual CPU. You pays yer money, you takes yer wotsit.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Keith Christoffers
2001-11-30 00:40:25 UTC
Permalink
No, I havent heard anyone produce a single legitimate reason as to exactly
why XP would be better then W2K for making music with Logic (or any other
DAW app for that matter). Not a single one.... and the question has been
posed many times in this forum and others. But if you have some secret info
about it I'm all ears ;)

So if you have W2K I am of the opinion that you would be wasting money on
XP. In addition, I can think of a lot of reasons why you wouldnt want to
run XP. Furthermore, I have seen several independent tests of the two OSs
for performance and come to the conclusion that they perform in a very
similar capacity... like they should, considering they have almost
identical Kernel builds (the core of the MS OS). So if you want to go for a
consumer-grade OS which is on its first release over a professional-grade OS
which has a 2 year proven history be my guest.

(And just a quick note... lets review the history of all MS consumer grade
OS releases.... When MS released an OS which was supposed to me incredibly
more stable and incorporate higher multimedia function, what did they call
it?....... win98, winME and WinXP..... Although win98se has proven to be a
sum what solid OS, no one will argue that the first two on the list are
flops.... we'll see about the last one... and as Phil says "You pays yer
money, you takes yer wotsit." well... you takes your chances if you ask
me... and a quick sub-note... heh heh heh.. whats the known and public
business strategy of MS? anyone?... well, simply put by MS, its the three
Es. Embrace, Enhance, Eliminate....... if you ask me, this is classic MS
working on the last E of the equation.. I think this OS may prove to be an
improvement to the consumer over time, but I think it is also largely an
opportunity for them to get larger strong hold on a broader software market
by including MS multimedia... Its the way they are edging off Netscape and
the same thing with the multimedia software productions.. blah blah blah..
I'm tired of this rant...)

As for the dual CPU info, I dont think this is correct. I believe the home
version is also dual cpu capable. I'm not positive on this one, but
relatively sure.

cheers,
keith$
Post by Phil Angus
Post by Satch
OT:Ok Who Is Using Windows XP and Is Stabler than WIN2K? Which OS to buy?
Well Satch, you need to boogie on down and get XP as it is future proof
and will offer more support for software including Logic as time goes on. I
use it now and it's great. Check your hardware is supported.
Post by Phil Angus
Phil
PS XP Home Edition - single CPU support
XP Professional - dual CPU. You pays yer money, you takes yer wotsit.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Post by Satch
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Phil Angus
2001-12-01 15:19:43 UTC
Permalink
"Keith Christoffers" <christkh-X+ciFx38FzWHXe+***@public.gmane.org> wrote lots about this.....

No offense Keith but you tend to write a lot of stuff about this when
a simple statement will do. No one (including me) is saying we
should all rush out and buy XP, ditch 2000 and all will be 100%
better.

If someone is faced with a choice of upgrading from Windows 9X /
ME they should without a shadow of doubt get XP. This is simply
because that is the (Windows) OS of the future and I can pretty
much guarantee there is not a single reason why anyone should
get 2000 rather than XP, but rather the other way round.

I have been using all MS operating systems including server
releases for years. 2000 is a stable server platform, but rather
cludgy for some applications at the workstation level. Anyone who
has experience of MS networking with 2000 knows what I mean.

2000 or XP? XP every time. That's it. If you have 2000, by all
means hang on and see how much wear and tear you can coax out
of it.

Phil

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soreyenus-/
2001-12-01 23:52:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Angus
I have been using all MS operating systems including server
releases for years. 2000 is a stable server platform, but rather
cludgy for some applications at the workstation level. Anyone who
has experience of MS networking with 2000 knows what I mean.
2000 or XP? XP every time. >
Phil
Great post Phil! Totally agree about the "cludge" factor...that's why
I've stuck with SE for now...

I missed earlier threads, but are you running XP and Logic and it's
stable?

If so, what soundcard are you using?

must have a fairly beefy machine to handle that new OS and
Logic....no?

Regards,

Serafim
Xavier Davis
2001-12-02 06:19:39 UTC
Permalink
Could one or both of you please expand on the "cludge" factor? I'm
considering switching from ME to XP for my Logic computer. I do have
my computers networked (the other is running 98, first edition) so
I'm interested as to what I'd be getting myself into.

Thanks,
Xav
Post by soreyenus-/
Post by Phil Angus
I have been using all MS operating systems including server
releases for years. 2000 is a stable server platform, but rather
cludgy for some applications at the workstation level. Anyone who
has experience of MS networking with 2000 knows what I mean.
2000 or XP? XP every time. >
Phil
Great post Phil! Totally agree about the "cludge" factor...that's why
I've stuck with SE for now...
I missed earlier threads, but are you running XP and Logic and it's
stable?
If so, what soundcard are you using?
must have a fairly beefy machine to handle that new OS and
Logic....no?
Regards,
Serafim
Keith Christoffers
2001-12-02 18:01:20 UTC
Permalink
WinXP, upon initial installation, even on P3-1GHz machines, has a very slow
feel and appears to regularly stammer when doing routine tasks, like opening
file browsers and listing directories. There is an option to configure all
interface options for maximum performance and this will most frequently
solve any problems. But even after configuring the interface for maximum
performance I still think its not nearly as responsive as w2k.

keith$
Post by Xavier Davis
Could one or both of you please expand on the "cludge" factor? I'm
considering switching from ME to XP for my Logic computer. I do have
my computers networked (the other is running 98, first edition) so
I'm interested as to what I'd be getting myself into.
Thanks,
Xav
Post by soreyenus-/
Post by Phil Angus
I have been using all MS operating systems including server
releases for years. 2000 is a stable server platform, but rather
cludgy for some applications at the workstation level. Anyone who
has experience of MS networking with 2000 knows what I mean.
2000 or XP? XP every time. >
Phil
Great post Phil! Totally agree about the "cludge" factor...that's
why
Post by soreyenus-/
I've stuck with SE for now...
I missed earlier threads, but are you running XP and Logic and it's
stable?
If so, what soundcard are you using?
must have a fairly beefy machine to handle that new OS and
Logic....no?
Regards,
Serafim
Post by Phil Angus
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Keith Christoffers
2001-11-30 19:51:13 UTC
Permalink
yes Phil, I do write a lot about this, heh heh heh, so just for you I will
try to keep it brief... I have a strong interest in XP, and I hear a lot of
people talking about it in DAW forums, so I am trying to get a bead on any
advantage XP may have over w2k.

What you have to say is interesting, but I dont agree with some of it. For
instance, XP is not "the OS of the future". It is the consumer-grade OS of
the future... Just as win95 was when it came out and win98 after that....
But it is most certainly not the professional / business-grade OS of the
future... Also, XP is not necessarily the logical progression of OSs from
the win9x platform or for Logic users. XP is more W2K then it will ever be
win9x. If you use your computer for things other then Logic that may be
another story, but again, we are not talking about "what is the best OS
now?" we are talking about "what is the best OS for Logic now?"

As for reasons why one might not want to use XP?... hmm...
1) It is a brand new OS and has a certain risk factor involved with
stability
2) Device drivers are just being developed and are in their first revision
for many devices
3) There are several new "phone home" options incorporated into the OS which
are additional and unnecessary background processes.
4) The interface options have to be significantly tuned down to reduce the
cludgy feel of the OS... And when you mention cludgy, I have never seen an
interface as cludgy as XP after an initial install. (I am a research
scientist, as per my email adress, and in addition I am the network and
computer professional for my department. In this capacity, when I am not at
the bench doing research, I serve to mange all the departmental computers.
As of recently, I have had 5 people come to me independently with various
winXP computers. The chief complaint being, "the OS seems to pause and slow
down when doing routine tasks". After tuning these PCs a bit they do much
better.... But I have never had anyone with w2k come to me with this
problem and I think its very telling). The question is, if other Drs. are
coming to me and asking me why their XP system seems to be a pig on their
brand new computer, are we going to expect that other people wont have the
same problems?
5) It is by no means a proven OS for DAW function. And I think this is one
of the most important points. You of all people (who give DAW advice at the
professional level) shouldnt be giving advice to go out and get XP when so
little information has been collected about its performance in the DAW
capacity and how it stacks up to w2k. I personally find this advice to be a
little 'willey nilley' and I am a bit suprised to hear it from you...
especially with the slogans you attach to it, like "the OS of the future"
and the confidence for which you proclaim your opinion "without a shadow of
a doubt"... Hey, its your reputation I guess..

As for some applications being cludgy on W2K..... I dont know what you are
talking about specifically.. The W2K and the XP kernel is nearly identical
and any app which runs well on XP will undoubtably run well on W2K...
period..

As for the poor networking issues.. No networking professional will argue
that point with you. MS networking is some of the slowest (with the most
overhead transfer needed) and the most insecure networking available.. MS
has developed their networking protocal over the years via the three Es that
I spoke of earlier.. Stealing and implimenting powerful technology from
truely inovative companies like Novel, IBM and Sun. Yes, MS networking is
slow and full of holes for sure.

As for the life that one could coax out of W2K... again, its the same
kernel (which means, at its most fundemantal level is almost identical) and
any life which XP has, W2K will be right behind it. I dont see all the
corporate users throughing in the towel on W2K to run a consumer grade OS
like XP... XP is essentially W2K bundled with better plug and play and more
multimedia options for the consumer. The multimedia options incorporated in
XP will not help Logic run better on any PC... At least no one has
suggested any significant reason as to why it will yet and I have been
asking for a long time now (as you eluded to in your last message).

I dont think a first revision consumer-grade OS is a prudent choice over a
rock solid industry proven W2K with two years of real world R&D devoted to
making it run more stable and efficiently. Again, there may be substantial
reasons why XP will be better or is better then w2k, yet no one has found it
necessary to even make the briefest mention of them in any specific terms.

keith$
and will write more untill people start giving advice that is based on
scientific and practical information, not slogans and generalities.
Post by Phil Angus
No offense Keith but you tend to write a lot of stuff about this when
a simple statement will do. No one (including me) is saying we
should all rush out and buy XP, ditch 2000 and all will be 100%
better.
If someone is faced with a choice of upgrading from Windows 9X /
ME they should without a shadow of doubt get XP. This is simply
because that is the (Windows) OS of the future and I can pretty
much guarantee there is not a single reason why anyone should
get 2000 rather than XP, but rather the other way round.
I have been using all MS operating systems including server
releases for years. 2000 is a stable server platform, but rather
cludgy for some applications at the workstation level. Anyone who
has experience of MS networking with 2000 knows what I mean.
2000 or XP? XP every time. That's it. If you have 2000, by all
means hang on and see how much wear and tear you can coax out
of it.
Phil
This message is intended only for the person or entity to which it is
addressed, and may contain confidential and/or privileged information.
Accordingly, any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.
Post by Phil Angus
The views expressed in this communication may not necessarily be the views
held by Hammer plc.
Post by Phil Angus
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Andrea Gozzi
2001-12-02 11:50:31 UTC
Permalink
Logic will run happily either with XP or Win2k.
The main thing you might want to look for before switching OS,
is proper driver support.
Is your audio card WELL supported under any of these 2 OS?
Is your midi interface WELL supported under any of these 2 OS?
That's where the real problems lie...

Andrea
Tod Moses
2001-12-03 02:00:54 UTC
Permalink
Thanks to all you out there taking a critical (but not
MS is the root of all evil, and any new thing they do
just the newest attempt to steal our money...)look at
the XP vs. 2k issue. The truth about drivers is that
every new OS that has been worth useing has delt with
this same issue. And everybody pisses and moans about
it and after two to six weeks , things get caught up
and we all go about our merry way.
To those of you who think that MS will not stop
supporting 2K because to many buisnesse are useing it,
I would like to ask. SINCE WHEN HAS THAT EVER STOPED
THEM IN THE PAST. They phase out support based on the
age of the product and my only point is the 2K is 2
years older than XP, so it stands to reason that XP
will probably be suuported aprx. 2 years longer than
2K. Simple buisness math. HEH HEH HEH
All that being said, if I had it to do over again, I
would have waited another month to do the XP upgrade,
so the driver issues would be resolved.
PS. Good point about the older hardware.
Post by Andrea Gozzi
Logic will run happily either with XP or Win2k.
The main thing you might want to look for before
switching OS,
is proper driver support.
Is your audio card WELL supported under any of these
2 OS?
Is your midi interface WELL supported under any of
these 2 OS?
That's where the real problems lie...
Andrea
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Keith Christoffers
2001-12-03 17:03:09 UTC
Permalink
yah, the driver issue should be resolved very soon and that was a really
good point about cheap hardware. I remember buying a relatively cheap midi
controller from Motu and having to wait nearly a year and a half before they
developed drivers for it in w2k...

As for w2k longevity.... winXP is not being marketed as a business OS, it is
being marketed as a consumer OS. As for OS support, NT4 is still very well
supported, service packs continue to be released and if you go to the MS web
site you will see that several updates have been released for NT 4 this
year. So NT4 has been well supported even 2 years after NT5 was released!
W2K will have full support until another business grade OS is developed.
MS understands that businesses consider concepts like "utility" and
"functionality" in their decisions to implement technology and not many
business' will see any increased utility or functionality from changing OSs
from w2k to XP. In addition, there is probably an order of magnitude
greater number of W2K PCs then there ever were NT4 machines.... MS has no
choice, they will support it and they will support it fully until the direct
successor is developed. And given their current support of NT4 and the
sheer numbers of w2k machines out there, how long do you think they will
support W2K after 'NT6' is released?

Dont get me wrong here. XP may be a great OS for Logic... It may even be a
better OS for Logic, but we havent really addressed any specific subject
matter which may suggest this. When choosing an OS for Logic, I would
certainly not consider the longevity and support of W2K (be it from MS or
third parties) as an even remotely significant aspect. W2K will be alive
and as fully supported as ever at least up to Logic 6! ;)

cheers,
keith$
Post by Tod Moses
Thanks to all you out there taking a critical (but not
MS is the root of all evil, and any new thing they do
just the newest attempt to steal our money...)look at
the XP vs. 2k issue. The truth about drivers is that
every new OS that has been worth useing has delt with
this same issue. And everybody pisses and moans about
it and after two to six weeks , things get caught up
and we all go about our merry way.
To those of you who think that MS will not stop
supporting 2K because to many buisnesse are useing it,
I would like to ask. SINCE WHEN HAS THAT EVER STOPED
THEM IN THE PAST. They phase out support based on the
age of the product and my only point is the 2K is 2
years older than XP, so it stands to reason that XP
will probably be suuported aprx. 2 years longer than
2K. Simple buisness math. HEH HEH HEH
All that being said, if I had it to do over again, I
would have waited another month to do the XP upgrade,
so the driver issues would be resolved.
PS. Good point about the older hardware.
Post by Andrea Gozzi
Logic will run happily either with XP or Win2k.
The main thing you might want to look for before
switching OS,
is proper driver support.
Is your audio card WELL supported under any of these
2 OS?
Is your midi interface WELL supported under any of
these 2 OS?
That's where the real problems lie...
Andrea
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Post by Andrea Gozzi
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Adam Pendse
2001-12-03 17:07:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keith Christoffers
As for w2k longevity.... winXP is not being marketed as a
business OS, it is
being marketed as a consumer OS.
So why home and pro version? I thought XP pro was w2k's successor.

Best regards,
Adam P
Keith Christoffers
2001-12-03 18:30:03 UTC
Permalink
From what I hear, independent testing is rating the performance of XP as
"consumer grade". I know, I thought XP was going to be the single OS that
went consumer and business, simultaneously, but I dont think it will... I
think MS is testing the waters and I dont get the feeling this OS will fly
in that regards.

There are a lot of computers which are responsible for running sophisticated
machinery and developers will only run NT. For instance, in my lab I have a
1.5 million dollar device called a 'mass spectrometer' which is run by an
NT4 workstation. We dont even bother with w2k and the device was installed
new within the last 6 months.

I dont think XP will be an OS which businesses use to run sophisticated
machinery like this. I do hear of military missile systems which are
running w2k... but for the most part, when you start adding more and more
features to an OS, which you dont need, there are more and more things which
can go wrong. This is something that we recognize in the lab, something
that I recognize in the studio and something that professionals in technical
fields recognize. Just because an OS is labeled as "professional" doesnt
mean it fits the bill.

cheers,

keith christoffers
dept. of neuroscience
university of medicine and dentistry of new jersey / center for molecular
and behavioral neuroscience
Post by Keith Christoffers
As for w2k longevity.... winXP is not being marketed as a
business OS, it is
being marketed as a consumer OS.
So why home and pro version? I thought XP pro was w2k's successor.
Best regards,
Adam P
Post by Keith Christoffers
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soreyenus-/
2001-12-04 11:52:48 UTC
Permalink
From what I hear, independent testing is rating the performance of XP as
"consumer grade".
I don't think so. XP looks to be much more stable, look into it a bit
deeper. M$ is marketing it also to be professional OS, much inline
with their upcoming Business to Business (B2B) .net initiative

There is some great functionality, good support. Seems like it runs
applications much more indepedently from the OS, as it should, so
when app's crash, that crash doesn't bring down the OS.
I dont think XP will be an OS which businesses use to run
sophisticated machinery like this. I do hear of military missile
systems which are running w2k
ah, well, I hope not! And I certainly doubt it! Unix, and other,
older, more stable, robust, and reliable dedicated systems are
running sensitive machines. Bet on it.
Keith Christoffers
2001-12-04 17:07:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by soreyenus-/
I don't think so. XP looks to be much more stable, look into it a bit
deeper. M$ is marketing it also to be professional OS, much inline
with their upcoming Business to Business (B2B) .net initiative
Please show me how you detrermine that XP is "much more stable". Can you
share any quantifiable observations or site any non-biased determination?

as for XP being a "professional" OS, here is a quick article for you:
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t297-s2099626,00.html

and here are a couple quotes from it:
'Altendorf said he had been surprised that XP did not have more performance
improvements compared with Windows 2000. "You would think that with each
release the company would try and tune the operating system," '

and

'Adrian Tatum, director of the Microsoft Alliance at services firm
Computacenter, agreed there are no vast differences between Windows XP and
2000.'

and here's one I couldnt resist:

""I think for business this is too little, too soon. How many firms will use
photo processing? Those that need it will already be using specialist
software."
Post by soreyenus-/
There is some great functionality, good support. Seems like it runs
applications much more indepedently from the OS, as it should, so
when app's crash, that crash doesn't bring down the OS.
I'm not even going to touch the "seems like it runs applications much more
independently from the OS" bit...... but yes, XP loads DLLs as unique
copies. This allows for seperate applications to use indepedent copies of
single DLLs. This significantly cuts down on DLL conflicts. However, this
was one of the major improvements which was made in NT when w2k was released
and one of the major contributors to its improved stability. You may be
refering to something entirely different, but if you are not, it is a common
misconception that XP loads separate DLLs and that this is an improvement
over w2k. It is certainly an improvement over win9x, but w2k has been doing
this since the beginning.
Post by soreyenus-/
ah, well, I hope not! And I certainly doubt it! Unix, and other,
older, more stable, robust, and reliable dedicated systems are
running sensitive machines. Bet on it.
well... I hope you stay out of the casinos ;) .... I agree, for the most
part that military computers responsible for missile guidance are
VMS/VAX/VME/Unix machines, but there are instances which the military uses
NT technology for missile systems. Be it testing, luanch or guidance. I
cant seem to find the link for the w2k application, but I have found some
NT4 applications. The first one on the list desrcibes an NT 4 application.
Here is a quick quote from it, where they refer to an NT4 system:

"The ATWCS allows shipboard operators to generate and maintain a surface
track database, coordinate strike activities with other ships in a battle
group and launch the Tomahawk missiles. "

http://www.general-micro-systems.com/wp_military.html
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/systems/Stanfield.pdf
http://www.onr.navy.mil/news/to_10_00.htm

And this is the last comment I will ever make about w2k and XP. I thought
we could have a critical discussion about the two OSs but it turns out that
we havent been able to get past the generalities and non-factual opinions...
I realize that many of us are not software programmers or OS programmers,
but I was hoping to get at some of the concrete and relavent differences
between the OSs that would effect Logic users. I dont think we have come up
with too many (except for my little list of reasons why I wouldnt use XP
over w2k)
I'm sure everyone else is as tired of this discussion as I am, so I am
signing off on this one (I think I can here the celebration.. heh heh heh)

cheers,
keith$
Post by soreyenus-/
From what I hear, independent testing is rating the performance of
XP as
"consumer grade".
I don't think so. XP looks to be much more stable, look into it a bit
deeper. M$ is marketing it also to be professional OS, much inline
with their upcoming Business to Business (B2B) .net initiative
There is some great functionality, good support. Seems like it runs
applications much more indepedently from the OS, as it should, so
when app's crash, that crash doesn't bring down the OS.
I dont think XP will be an OS which businesses use to run
sophisticated machinery like this. I do hear of military missile
systems which are running w2k
ah, well, I hope not! And I certainly doubt it! Unix, and other,
older, more stable, robust, and reliable dedicated systems are
running sensitive machines. Bet on it.
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Adam Pendse
2001-12-04 18:09:23 UTC
Permalink
Hi Keith,
Post by Keith Christoffers
I'm sure everyone else is as tired of this discussion as I am, so I am
signing off on this one (I think I can here the celebration..
heh heh heh)
its been informative - thanks.
I guess we could boil it down to
a) existing w2k users could probably save their money (unless they want the
extra stuff)
b) users migrating from win9x should probably go to XP (unless they need to
run misile tracking software)

Best regards,
Adam P
Keith Christoffers
2001-12-04 21:03:18 UTC
Permalink
ok, I lied, I'm back.... yah, thats what I would go with. If you plan on
actually upgrading the OS without formatting your system you are better off
with XP because in all likelihood migrating from win9x to XP will be much
smoother then to w2k. But I would highly recommend against the upgrade
without completely formatting and starting from scratch, I think you would
be asking for trouble. But even then, I cant say that I recommend the OS
because I have no experience with it in Logic and can only recommend w2k
based on experience and current Emagic support. It may be a safe bet, but
you are hearing no promises from me ;)

cheers,
keith$
Post by Adam Pendse
Hi Keith,
Post by Keith Christoffers
I'm sure everyone else is as tired of this discussion as I am, so I am
signing off on this one (I think I can here the celebration..
heh heh heh)
its been informative - thanks.
I guess we could boil it down to
a) existing w2k users could probably save their money (unless they want the
extra stuff)
b) users migrating from win9x should probably go to XP (unless they need to
run misile tracking software)
Best regards,
Adam P
Post by Keith Christoffers
Subject lines must contain: [LAM]/[LAW]/[GEN]/[OT] <<<<<
FAQ: http://www.logicuser.net
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litepipe
2001-12-04 21:42:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keith Christoffers
If you plan on
actually upgrading the OS without formatting your system you are better off
with XP because in all likelihood migrating from win9x to XP will be much
smoother then to w2k. But I would highly recommend against the upgrade
without completely formatting and starting from scratch, I think you would
be asking for trouble.
Hi Keith,
Let me ask this: It's just as good to buy the upgrade, format
and re-install Win98 and then XP as it is to buy the full version of XP?
Thanks!!

--Roger
Keith Christoffers
2001-12-04 23:41:56 UTC
Permalink
yah, for sure, its the same thing, you just have to insert a MS OS
(win95,98, ME, etc...)disk during installation if you are coming from a
formatted disk.

cheers,
keith$
Post by Adam Pendse
Post by Keith Christoffers
If you plan on
actually upgrading the OS without formatting your system you are better
off
Post by Keith Christoffers
with XP because in all likelihood migrating from win9x to XP will be much
smoother then to w2k. But I would highly recommend against the upgrade
without completely formatting and starting from scratch, I think you would
be asking for trouble.
Hi Keith,
Let me ask this: It's just as good to buy the upgrade, format
and re-install Win98 and then XP as it is to buy the full version of XP?
Thanks!!
--Roger
Post by Keith Christoffers
Subject lines must contain: [LAM]/[LAW]/[GEN]/[OT] <<<<<
FAQ: http://www.logicuser.net
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Gordon Murrison
2001-12-04 23:22:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Pendse
Hi Keith,
Let me ask this: It's just as good to buy the upgrade,
format
Post by Adam Pendse
and re-install Win98 and then XP as it is to buy the full version of XP?
Thanks!!
I hope so - I just ordered the upgrade! Normally the upgrade CDs
from MS can be installed on a fresh machine. You just have to pop in
your old version CD when prompted to by the installer from the new
one.

soreyenus-/
2001-12-04 23:27:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keith Christoffers
Post by soreyenus-/
I don't think so. XP looks to be much more stable, look into it a bit
deeper. M$ is marketing it also to be professional OS, much inline
with their upcoming Business to Business (B2B) .net initiative
Please show me how you detrermine that XP is "much more stable". Can you
share any quantifiable observations or site any non-biased
determination?
Good post Keith. Having worked with military networks, I can't say
I've ever seen any of our secure systems running missles that ran on
NT. Maybe for training, maybe just on machines I've never seen.

My analysis is based upon:

Loading XP on three home machines (not the recording one) and
comparing performance to Win2K in many different areas, many
different tests that go beyond the scope of this group. My finding is
XP runs more stable, efficient, and faster, than win2k.

But this wasn't the point I was trying to make!

I just wanted to say let's give XP a chance, as it's certainly a
better option than 98, and it hasn't even been out of the starting
gate! It seems to me, that if it holds up as strongly as it has
shown, then it will be a solid OS for us to run Logic on.

However, I cannot say that I'd rather run M$ than MAC, nor Unix. In
fact, I don't particularly like Windows OS, but I think it's fair to
fully test an OS in your environment before making assumptions.

Are you running it? What have been your findings?

With all this great hardware available, I'd like to see a seriously
trimmed down OS, much like Unix, that only did thing: Music software
applications.

enough of all these extra services and crap OS makers think we want!
Keith Christoffers
2001-12-05 00:04:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by soreyenus-/
Good post Keith. Having worked with military networks, I can't say
I've ever seen any of our secure systems running missiles that ran on
NT. Maybe for training, maybe just on machines I've never seen.
yah, I dont imagine too many missile systems are being controlled by an NT
box, and with all the other available OSs out there I think any MS choice
would be my last. Although, I think they were testing all in one
packages... some kind of "war counsel" for the point and click general....
heh heh.. man, could we be any more detached from the actual act of war?
ok, that was waaayyyy OT... sorry
Post by soreyenus-/
Loading XP on three home machines (not the recording one) and
comparing performance to Win2K in many different areas, many
different tests that go beyond the scope of this group. My finding is
XP runs more stable, efficient, and faster, than win2k.
I would be interested in this info. From the comprehensive tests I have
seen done, I would say that the two OSs come out nearly equivalent in terms
of performance. Although people are beginning to say that XP disk i/o and
memory management isnt completely up to par with w2k.. although these are
just rumors to me so far.
Post by soreyenus-/
But this wasn't the point I was trying to make!
I just wanted to say let's give XP a chance, as it's certainly a
better option than 98, and it hasn't even been out of the starting
gate! It seems to me, that if it holds up as strongly as it has
shown, then it will be a solid OS for us to run Logic on.
Yah, I would think it will be much better then 98. Although there are
certain facets of the OS that concern me and give me pause as a logic user.
Post by soreyenus-/
However, I cannot say that I'd rather run M$ than MAC, nor Unix. In
fact, I don't particularly like Windows OS, but I think it's fair to
fully test an OS in your environment before making assumptions.
yah, this is a good point about testing the OS in your environment, or
'computational context'... (heh heh heh, I just made that one up...)
Depending upon the drivers for your specific computer, there may be fast
differences in performance of Logic in the two OSs. For instance, many
people are seeing up to 50% increase in functional DSP in Logic when going
from 98 to w2k. This is at the high end of the spectrum, while others only
see 10% increases, but none the less, there are certainly w98/w2k driver
efficiency issues, where drivers for you particular gear just work much more
efficiently in a particular OS.
So it is likely that people may have large differences between DSP / Logic
performance when running XP vs w2k. This is my experience. I found w2k to
way out perform XP with my computer when using the 4 standard DSP tests as a
comparison.
Post by soreyenus-/
Are you running it? What have been your findings?
With all this great hardware available, I'd like to see a seriously
trimmed down OS, much like Unix, that only did thing: Music software
applications.
enough of all these extra services and crap OS makers think we want!
Yah, I totally agree.. I wish Logic ran on Linux or something like that
where my computer resources were being more efficiently utilized... I am a
utilitarian and when I look at my computer I think utility and function.
None of the added bells and whistles that I have seen on XP will give logic
any improved function, performance or utility over a w2k system.

cheers,
keith$
Murray McDowall
2001-12-02 02:46:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Angus
2000 is a stable server platform, but rather
cludgy for some applications at the workstation level. Anyone who
has experience of MS networking with 2000 knows what I mean.
You mean that it offers any networking protocol you can think of so long as
its TCP/IP? ;-)

This has been addressed in XP I take it although I read somewhere a couple
of weeks ago that a NetBEUI client is not available in XP. Are any of these
clients noticeably better for a small workgroup network than TCP/IP?

I've just been putting Win2K on my Logic Machine in the last 24 hours. The
new OS is noticably snappier than Win98. Logic seems to run OK on the new
OS -- Just a couple of minor problems:
-- one of my VSTi's forces a shutdown.
-- I get a reboot ASIO message everytime I load the default song (delta
1010 ASIO driver)

Regards,
Murray
Rich
2001-12-02 13:02:59 UTC
Permalink
I think Andrea is very correct here. You want to check the drivers that are
available for your midi and audio interfaces. If you have newer hardware,
chances are better that the manufacturer will support your devices under XP.
With some older soundcards and interfaces, you might be best NOT to upgrade
until you replace the old stuff. I have Logic 4.8.1 working quite well
under XP, but I had to replace a midi interface (an opcode 8 port se) to get
there. I think down the road XP will prevail. Once the drivers and
software fully arrives, there will be no looking back. Right now we are in
a period of driver hell, with some devices clicking and popping as
manufacturers scramble to get up to speed. In a few months, most of it will
be sorted out. This is not the time to buy an older soundcard, beware of
low price "deals" on hardware that probably won't be updated, no matter how
good it is, if you plan to upgrade. Is XP the future? On the PC platform,
I think it is. For today, Win 98se gives the best Logic performance IMO
and for one reason--stable drivers.

Rich
www.tweakheadz.com articles on XP and Logic here!
Message: 21
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 12:50:31 +0100
From: "Andrea Gozzi" <agoz-***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: OT:Ok Who Is Using Windows XP and Is Stabler than WIN2K? Which
OS to buy?

Logic will run happily either with XP or Win2k.
The main thing you might want to look for before switching OS,
is proper driver support.
Is your audio card WELL supported under any of these 2 OS?
Is your midi interface WELL supported under any of these 2 OS?
That's where the real problems lie...

Andrea
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