Incompatibility between Midiman Oxygen 8 and Logic Pro on iMac?

[dpetrou1]

I am trying to use my Midiman Oxygen 8 midi keyboard with Logic Pro. It connects via a
USB cable. I have installed the newest drivers for this keyboard. This keyboard is in
perfect working order and works fine with other applications including Reason. However,
as soon as I press a key or otherwise use the keyboard with Logic, my machine freezes.
Sometimes the `memory available' indicator in Logic starts changing rapidly before the
computer freezes. I have an Apple iMac 800 MHz with 768 Megs of RAM. I'm running Mac
OS X 10.3.3.

thanks,
david

p.s.: please cc: dpetrou-***@public.gmane.org

[Howard Wooten]

Post by dpetrou1
I am trying to use my Midiman Oxygen 8 midi keyboard with Logic Pro. It
connects via a USB cable. I have installed the newest drivers for this
keyboard. This >keyboard is in perfect working order and works fine with
other applications including Reason. However, as soon as I press a key or
otherwise use the keyboard with Logic, my machine freezes.

David,

Possible "MIDI loop"?

I'm a PC user but the immediate freeze and the memory counter running down
sound like a loop. It could be driver related but I'd first try looking at
the environment as it's possible to have a MIDI loop within Logic.

Does the keyboard have a function that echos MIDI IN to MIDI OUT, if so
turn it off, also, to be on the safe side set "Local On" to OFF as well.

HW

[Mothra]

Post by Howard Wooten
David,
Possible "MIDI loop"?
I'm a PC user but the immediate freeze and the memory counter running down
sound like a loop. It could be driver related but I'd first try looking at
the environment as it's possible to have a MIDI loop within Logic.
Does the keyboard have a function that echos MIDI IN to MIDI OUT, if so
turn it off, also, to be on the safe side set "Local On" to OFF as well.
HW

The Oxygen doesnt have a local on/off option, its a controller.
Not too sure how he would get a feedback loop either as the Oxygen only
has Midi outputs and no input.

Sorry wasnt too much help, but the Oxygen is definately compatible, mine
has worked fine ever since I bought it.
Im gonna assume youve updated to MAudios latest driver right?

What else you got plugged in via USB? My wireless Microsoft Explorer
moouse ran out of batteries last night and after plugging in my Apple
mouse, I couldnt click on anything in Logic at all, yet my song was
still playing and the pointer moved fine.. Couldnt click on the Dock,
Finder, etc.. Had to go unplug the transmitter for the M$ mouse and all
of sudden my mouse buttons worked again... Its never done that before,
usually I just plug in another mouse, charge my batteries and all is
well. Could be one of them wierd types of conflicts also..

[Keith Moore]

Has anyone had any trouble playing back vision via firewire with the
6.5.1 update of QT?
I can playback vision in ProTools via Firewire, however, it will not
pump it out in Logic Pro 6.4.1.
(this is with both a Canopus convertor and a Sony DV cam.)

Matt,
Are you using BTV to capture DV?
I had the same problem, had to buy Final Cut Express to make the
captures work.
BTW BTV captures worked fine in OS9 ....... I think QT may be the
culprit.


Keith Moore

There are three types of people in this world
...........those that can count & those that can't.

_ \_ \_ ...............
http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~kcmoore

[sydjaz]

Hi all,

thanks to those that replied to my original post ESPECIALLY Robert LUDWIG who introduced me to XBench.
Here's a summary of "some" conclusions, hardly completely scientific
but at least a starting "Benchmark"

Background:
New G5 1.8GHz Dual Processor with 1.5G Ram, OSX 10.3.3 using LOGIC PRO,
Trying to decide where to go re: using a HARD DISK for AUDIO

Choices:
a) Serial ATA supplied ex FACTORY in G5
b) FW 800 Drive
c) Originally SCSI 39160 Adaptec PCI Card with 10rpm drives
d) FW 400

XBench gave scores, I am not sure what the number means
but taking the numerical value as an absolute benchmark,
the G5 Dual gave a score of 195.11 for the machine/computer overall

(a) SATA 150G Factory drive
overall 108.79 (Seq 117 / Random 101)
Sequential Write 159 @ 66.48 mB/s (4K Blocks)
Sequential Write 121 @ 49.56mB/s (256K Blocks)
Sequential Read 83 @ 13.29 mB/s (4K Blocks)
Sequential Read 131 @ 53 mB/s (256K Blocks)
Random Write 86 @ 1.3 mB/s (4K Blocks)
Random Write 107 @ 24.17mB/s (256K Blocks)
Random Read 98 @ 0.65 mB/s (4K Blocks)
Random Read 117 @ 24.10 mB/s (256K Blocks)

(b) FW 800 LaCie drive
overall 114.95 (seq 103 / Random 129)
Sequential Write 104 @ 43mB/s (4K Blocks)
Sequential Write 102 @ 43 mB/s (256K Blocks)
Sequential Read 83 @ 13 mB/s (4K Blocks)
Sequential Read 133@ 54 mB/s (256K Blocks)
Random Write 150 @ 2.2 mB/s (4K Blocks)
Random Write 180 @ 40mB/s (256K Blocks)
Random Read 100 @ 0.67 mB/s (4K Blocks)
Random Read 114 @ 23 mB/s (256K Blocks

Between the FW800 and the internal SATA:
the SATA Sequentially Writes better scores while the FW800 Random Write better scores
READING seems to give similar results.
Maybe someone who understands the raw data can explain it to the rest of us..:-)

(c) SCSI 10000rpm drives
overall 108.54 (Seq 114/random 103)
Sequential Write 105@ 43mB/s (4K Blocks)
Sequential Write 105 @ 43 mB/s (256K Blocks)
Sequential Read 138 @ 21 mB/s (4K Blocks)
Sequential Read 113 @ 45 mB/s (256K Blocks)
Random Write 94 @ 1.4 mB/s (4K Blocks)
Random Write 108 @ 24mB/s (256K Blocks)
Random Read 135 @ 0.9 mB/s (4K Blocks)
Random Read 86 @ 18 mB/s (256K Blocks

Seq READS faster than the SATA/FW800, but writes slower than SATA

(d) FW 400 drives
overall 80.17 (Seq 66/random 102)
Sequential Write 65@ 27mB/s (4K Blocks)
Sequential Write 64 @ 26 mB/s (256K Blocks)
Sequential Read 58 @ 10 mB/s (4K Blocks)
Sequential Read 83 @ 33 mB/s (256K Blocks)
Random Write 98 @ 1.5 mB/s (4K Blocks)
Random Write 117 @ 26mB/s (256K Blocks)
Random Read 101 @ 0.67 mB/s (4K Blocks)
Random Read 95 @ 19 mB/s (256K Blocks
worst results of all. (expected i suppose..)

OVERALL :
1. Seems like the SATA / FW 800 writes best
2. while the SCSI READS BEST.

may be simplistic conclusions.

anyone who can shed light for the rest of us..will be great.!!
Thanks all for your patience.


SYD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Nick Batzdorf]

Post by sydjaz
thanks to those that replied to my original post ESPECIALLY Robert
LUDWIG who introduced me to XBench.
Here's a summary of "some" conclusions, hardly completely scientific
but at least a starting "Benchmark"
New G5 1.8GHz Dual Processor with 1.5G Ram, OSX 10.3.3 using LOGIC PRO,
Trying to decide where to go re: using a HARD DISK for AUDIO
a) Serial ATA supplied ex FACTORY in G5
b) FW 800 Drive
c) Originally SCSI 39160 Adaptec PCI Card with 10rpm drives
d) FW 400

There are no FW 800 or FW400 drives, only ATA drives in FW cases. The
difference is the bandwidth.

If you have a G5, buy a SATA drive; if you need a big one, get 250MB
one. It'll run at 7200 RPM and have a seek spec of about 9ms. If you
really high performance - like if you're going to be streaming lots
of sampler voices - get a Western Digital Raptor, which spins at 10K
RPM and has a seek spec of about 4-1/2 ms. Raptors only come in 36
and 72GB.

If you already have SCSI, use it.

Any of the above will be perfectly fine for normal
recording/playing/editing DAW work. You should be able to run dozens
of tracks at 44.1/48kHz on any of them.

Stay away from those wanky benchmark programs! They produce
impressive-looking figures that mean nothing.

[Howard Wooten]

Does any one know if Logic 5 can take advantage or would run any
smoother/faster on a Dual Processor 3Ghz P4 with WIN XP and 512 dual
RAM as apposed to a Single Processor same spec with 1024 RAM?

I believe it's been mentioned that the I/O plugin trick also works on PC.

HW

[Howard Wooten]

Has emagic said something about this? Full automatic delay compensation
for PCI DSP-cards?
snip<
Nuendo has it working quite well, say the people on the Powercore and
UAD-forums. ProTools also. Sonar has it. Cubase SX2 - don't know.

Since SX2 is Nuendo minus a few features (same code base), SX2 also has
full delay compensation.

I would imagine it's going to take a substantial rewrite of Logic's audio
engine and bus system. Both Sonar and Cubase/Nuendo underwent significant
overhauls from version 1 to version 2. I think it might be a good thing as
Emagic has been tacking features on for years. When Steinberg moved Cubase
away from VST23 into SX (Nuendo based) they actually dropped some features
in order to implement changes that would enable future development. If
Logic undergoes a re-write, it may not be the same program that everyone is
used to now.

Howard

[Paul Najar]

Has emagic said something about this? Full automatic delay
compensation
for PCI DSP-cards?
snip<
Nuendo has it working quite well, say the people on the Powercore and
UAD-forums. ProTools also. Sonar has it. Cubase SX2 - don't know.

I missed the beginning of this post but the poster seems to have the
impression that Logic does not delay compensate PCI DSP cards.

Just so it's clear, Logic delay compensates Powercore and UAD cards in
all the places it compensates it's own plugins - which is everywhere
but busses and outputs.


:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Paul Najar
Jaminajar Music Production
www.jaminajar.com

[George Leger III]

Post by Paul Najar
I missed the beginning of this post but the poster seems to have the
impression that Logic does not delay compensate PCI DSP cards.
Just so it's clear, Logic delay compensates Powercore and UAD cards in
all the places it compensates it's own plugins - which is everywhere
but busses and outputs.

Yes, but in Nuendo 2 you have full delay comp, even for busses and
aux's..

George


www.utopiaparkwaymusic.com

Now both Mac OSX and Windows XP... the only way to fly ;-)

[Jules Bromley]

Post by Howard Wooten
I would imagine it's going to take a substantial rewrite of
Logic's audio engine and bus system. Both Sonar and
Cubase/Nuendo underwent significant overhauls from version 1
to version 2. I think it might be a good thing as Emagic has
been tacking features on for years. When Steinberg moved
Cubase away from VST23 into SX (Nuendo based) they actually
dropped some features in order to implement changes that
would enable future development. If Logic undergoes a
re-write, it may not be the same program that everyone is used to now.

Great post Howard - you are absolutely correct!

I worked with Nuendo and SX 2 for over a year after the Emapple takeover.
They are both superb pieces of software, feature rich and extremely
powerful. Indeed they eclipse Logic in many respects - VI implementation,
off-line processing, processing direct from the arrange window,
timestretching/pitchshifting capabilities etc. Nuendo also has a whole
host of superb post-pro' features.

However, as you rightly point out, this evolution didn't come without some
pain. For a long while people complained about Cubase VST features that had
been dropped, missing features in Nuendo, the inevitable bugs which a
complete re-write entails etc.

The fact is though that Logic now needs the kind of revolution that gave
birth to Nuendo/SX 2. It doesn't mean everything has to change - most of
what makes Logic great can remain. But what goes on underneath the hood
clearly needs to be re-worked:

- Multi-Output Virtual Instrument implementation is clumsy and time-sapping
- Off-line processing should simply never have been omitted
- Full delay compensation is becoming a 'core function' amongst the
competition
- Sampler playback issues which require Large Process buffer settings and
certain tracks to be selected in the Arrange Window to get clean audio is
juts daft

Unfortunately these kind of issues (I suspect) can't be addressed easily,
and without tackling some fundamentals with the audio engine.

Logic is still the best in so many respects:

- Best Interface
- Great Audio Unit and Core Audio implementation
- Superb MIDI editing
- The flexibility of the Environment
- Many features others have copied

It just needs to refocus on the functionality it lacks or does badly,
because they're pretty high up on a lot of people's 'must have' lists these
days. We don't need more included plugins, virtual instruments, or even a
new GUI, but now that all things OS X seem to settling down, we do need the
overhaul that will form the foundation of the next 5 years of Logic
evolution.

You're right though, if it's to happen, the user-base will have to show some
patience and understanding when things don't instantly run perfectly.

Jules